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 Post subject: Re: Long Covid.
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 12:15 am 
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It is completely pointless, indeed it does nothing other than give out the false impression that Long Covid is nothing to worry about because if you do suffer from Insomnia we have a treatment or a stategy to remedy it, which of course is completely false.


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 Post subject: Re: Long Covid.
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:34 pm 
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Long COVID Comes Into the Light
We’re finally starting to see the truth about the vexing condition. It’s not what we thought.
https://slate.com/technology/2023/03/long-covid-symptoms-studies-research-variant.html

The narrative of the article above seems not to have any scientific basis at all, it seems to me that the author has been cherry picking articles that contradict each other, while trying to build an article for publication.

Yes there are embedded links too many reputable sources such as the BMJ, Lancet etc but many of them are so out of date they can't possibly hold any water.

As for the "British epidemiologist Paul Garner", he was one of my first sources outside of the US and Israel to confirm that "Long Haul Covid" was a thing back in 2020, sadly he persisted in his belief that exercise was the way out of Long Covid, and as we all now know that is the last thing you should be doing.

I could go through the article and give my arguments paragraph by paragraph to debunk the article but before i do, i'd like to ask, do i need too and would anyone be interested in what i have to say?


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 Post subject: Re: Long Covid.
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:49 pm 
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I would read it if you argued the article, but only do it if it helps you get out your frustration at the bad article!

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 Post subject: Re: Long Covid.
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:40 pm 
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sboots wrote:
I would read it if you argued the article, but only do it if it helps you get out your frustration at the bad article!

I think it's important that 'journalism' such as this is called out, i'm in a position where i can do that because i lived it at a very early stage of the pandemic... i don't really want too have to do that which is why i posed the question does anyone want me too, if i got one response saying yes then i was willing to drill down into it.

When i started reading the article i was amazed that the author had the gall to write what he did.. then after a few more paragraphs i quickly realised that what he wrote was pure fiction, at best misinformed and misunderstood nonesense.

Then i kept on reading and i got more and more angry, at that point i was ready to go full on rant mode, the more i read the more i realised this was going to take a lot more time than I initially thought to break down his arguments, with counter-acting facts, figures, quotes etc.

I don't have the time to do that right now, it's nearly 3 am now, but i will get onto that tomorrow and hopefully post my breakdown explaining why i think the article is a complete nonesense tomorrow, or at the very latest a day later.

The hardest part is going to be finding updated medical papers for the ones the 'journalist' links too, especially his 2020/1/2 links, i know they exist but finding them will be my greatest challenge, not impossible, just time consuming.

@Steve, facts are important for understanding the truth, outdated facts are... <enter expletive>... if you know what i mean ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Long Covid.
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 10:47 am 
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Doddie wrote:
@Steve, facts are important for understanding the truth, outdated facts are... <enter expletive>... if you know what i mean ;)


Absolutely!

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 Post subject: Re: Long Covid.
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:33 pm 
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Okay, so here we go, i really hope the 'Save draft' function on the Forum works because i've never used that before and it's going to take me a while to go through all the points that i don't think stack up and i'll be using that to save and revisit the post before posting.

The article i have an issue with is above but for ease i'll post it again here:

Long COVID Comes Into the Light
We’re finally starting to see the truth about the vexing condition. It’s not what we thought.
https://slate.com/technology/2023/03/long-covid-symptoms-studies-research-variant.html

Before i move onto my arguements i should say that i suspect this will end up as a very long post, so please be aware of that.

For simplicity, the author of the article above was Jeff Wise, i'll refer to him as Jeff.

Jeff wrote:
Quote:
Even before 2020’s first horrific wave of COVID-19 deaths subsided, reports surfaced warning of a brutal second punch: Instead of recovering quickly after a mild infection, some people were suffering from symptoms that lingered or even intensified in the weeks and months that followed.

They did but no-one in the medical profession was interested, the medical profession was focused on the virus and not interested in the so called 'second punch'.

Quote:
The condition came to be called long COVID.

That's true but it took a very long time for it to be officially recognised, and it didn't happen in 2020, in fact "Long Covid" isn't even the officially recognised name used by the World Health Orginisation.

Indeed i've never quite got my head around exactly what it should be called because the UK government now officially calls it "Post-acute sequelae of covid-19", or PASC.

cf.
Post COVID-19 Condition
https://www.who.int/europe/news-room/fact-sheets/item/post-covid-19-condition

Post-acute sequelae of covid-19 six to 12 months after infection: population based study
https://www.bmj.com/content/379/bmj-2022-071050

Whatever it is called, or is supposed to be called, it wasn't until Sept 2020 that the WHO sat up and took notice that Long Covid might actually be a thing... the amount of time it took the WHO to formally give the condition a name was insane... i couldn't get an official diagnosis until they did, all any of my sick notes would say was "Post Viral Infection".

A UK based website (if i can call it that), set up and populated at that time mostly by hospital staff and practioners at all levels, they had an opion piece published on the BMJ website that led to the WHO inviting them to give a presentation...
Quote:
September 3, 2020

A few weeks ago, we wrote a BMJ Opinion piece about the long term impacts of Covid and called for patients’ experiences of Long Covid to be included in any initiatives to explore the experience of “long-haulers.” This opinion piece foregrounded a video called “message in a bottle” made by the LongCovidSOS patient group, which caught the attention of the World Health Organisation’s covid-19 response team. The LongCovidSOS team were then invited to organise a meeting. This opportunity to present the existing evidence and highlight patients’ experiences of having Long Covid took place on Friday 21 August 2020. The meeting was attended by Maria Van Kerkhove, (WHO Covid Technical Lead) and Janet Diaz (WHO Head of Clinical Care) from the central WHO team.
At the meeting, two of us, Clare Rayner and Amali Lokugamage, both doctors who are experiencing long term impacts of covid-19, discussed their perspective of having Long Covid.

cf.
We have heard your message about long covid and we will act, says WHO
https://www.longcovidsos.org/post/longcovidsos-take-part-in-historical-meeting-with-the-who
Message in a Bottle - Long Covid SOS
https://youtu.be/IIeOoS_A4c8

Jeff later wrote,
One early and influential story was by the British epidemiologist Paul Garner, who wrote in the medical journal BMJ about being flattened by a “roller coaster of ill health, extreme emotions, and utter exhaustion.” He described experiencing relentless, extreme fatigue, a “muggy head,” breathlessness, muscle pain, and a “weird sensation in the skin”—a parade of “constantly shifting, bizarre symptoms” that left him bedridden.
That is perhaps my biggest issue with the article as posted by Jeff because what Paul Garner had published in the BMJ in 2021 is now universally accepted as the last thing you should do.

A little snippet from that article:
https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/25/paul-garner-on-his-recovery-from-long-covid/

Quote:
After a couple of months, my recovery was tested. I developed acute dengue fever while on holiday. The acute illness settled, I returned home, but multiple stresses meant the chronic fatigue symptoms recurred: the muggy headaches, aching muscles, and severe exhaustion. I now knew that I wasn’t physically ill, and with some friendly reminders I knew what to do. One afternoon, I felt as though I had been drugged, and felt so heavy I thought I could not raise my arms from the bed. I knew the symptoms were real, but I needed to distract my brain from them. So I thought, let’s do it: I will either die or recover, I got out of bed and went to Sefton Park to join a military fitness session. It was fabulous, and the exercise pushed the aches and fatigue aside. I slept well and felt better the following day. I was back on track.


That was May 2020 when next to no-one had any idea about Long Covid, fast forward to now and the latest on the BMJ website dated Sept 2022 is this:
Long covid—an update for primary care
https://www.bmj.com/content/378/bmj-2022-072117

Quote:
Symptoms and case definition
Long covid may be diagnosed late or not at all,111213 so both generalists and specialists should be alert to it as a differential, while also being aware that patients can develop other persistent symptoms following acute covid-19 that are not necessarily caused by covid-19. Long covid is characterised by a constellation of general and organ specific symptoms, the commonest of which are summarised in the infographic. These multiple manifestations lead to difficulties with daily activities such as washing and dressing, low exercise tolerance, and impaired ability to work (either at all or partially), and result in reduced quality of life.5141516171819... continues and edited for emphasis


Jeff later wrote:
Quote:
The complaints of early “long-haulers” were then picked up and amplified by activists, whose lobbying persuaded the government to allocate more than $1 billion in research funds...
"activists" and "lobbying"????

No. It was sufferers crying out for help trying to understand what was happening to them so they could rationalise why their lives had been turned upside down... it's rare that i come across a journalistic artice that really anger me, but that one line did just that!!

Now, three years later, the research is catching up to the anecdotal reports and the early evidence, and a clearer picture of long COVID has emerged. It turns out that, like COVID-19 itself, a lot of our early guesses about it turned out to be considerably wide of the mark. This time, fortunately, the surprises are mostly on the positive side. Long COVID is neither as common nor as severe as initially feared. As the U.S. government moves to end the country’s state of emergency, it’s another reassuring sign that, as President Biden put it during his State of the Union address, “COVID no longer controls our lives.”
Long Covid has not gone away, admittedly it is less prevelant now, but try telling that to someone who is currently living with Long Covid.

Quote:
As vaccines rolled out across the country in 2021, researchers at the Mayo Clinic analyzed the symptoms of 108 patients who’d come for post-COVID care. Their results suggested that these patients fell into two main camps. Some, mostly men, suffered severe illness and were still being plagued by symptoms like chest pain and shortness of breath. Then there were others, mostly women, who had experienced relatively mild illness, or no symptoms at all, but were subsequently dogged by “widespread pain, fatigue,” and “cognitive impairment, including the commonly reported ‘brain fog.’ ” The authors noted that this cluster of symptoms resembled a class of broadly similar conditions like chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, and POTS (postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome), all of which can leave sufferers incapacitated for years at a time.

How long could long COVID symptoms be expected to last? Researchers in Australia tried to answer that question by conducting phone interviews with every single person who was diagnosed with COVID-19 in the state of New South Wales between January and May 2020. They found that recovery followed a curve, with 80 percent of patients fully recovered after 30 days and 91 percent recovered after 60 days. Thereafter, the population of symptomatic patients continued to slowly dwindle, with 4 percent of the original patient population still suffering symptoms after four months. Their most common complaints were coughing and fatigue.

Two things to note in the above article, it's Australian, a country that didn't really have any Covid infections during 2020, that said, what they found shouldn't be ignored even if i question the validity.
Secondly,
Quote:
"Thereafter, the population of symptomatic patients continued to slowly dwindle, with 4 percent of the original patient population still suffering symptoms after four months. Their most common complaints were coughing and fatigue."
... only a cough and fatigue? Now that really does beggar belief.

Quote:
There is no evidence that any of this has actually happened. Not only did disability claims not rise during the pandemic, they fell.

I have no evidence to back up what i'm about to say nor, i suspect, will i ever find any...
I've not had one single penny of state support in the past 22 years and when i did try to claim support during late 2021 i was met with a brick wall where i was flatout denied any help at all... in the UK that's almost unheard of but the more i read the more i'm not surprised, big pharma seem to own everything these days.

I'll give credit to Jeff for saying this, i find it hard to believe it's sincere though:
Quote:
I want to be clear about this: Long COVID is a real illness that has dramatically affected many people’s lives. But its prevalence does seem significantly less worrisome than originally thought.


In the early stages of my disease i thought Paul Garner bordered on hero status, i now regard him as a fool:

Quote:
Indeed, even patients who suffer the most debilitating form of long COVID can find themselves improving after weeks and months, not years. In January 2021, eight months after his first essay ran in the BMJ, Paul Garner published a follow-up article in which he described how he had achieved a total recovery through a process that included plenty of exercise. “I’m back to normal,” he told me. Today he believes that the perception of a long COVID public health crisis—one his own experience helped to fuel—is overblown. “The predicted long-term disability from tissue damage simply has not materialized,” he said. “The public narrative has morphed into continued catastrophic thought.”


Much of what is later written could have come from a Long Covid denier and you can make up your own mind about that...

Of interest maybe is that the author has since updated the article..
Quote:
Update, March 20, 2023: This article has been updated to clarify that research has identified biological changes that can occur in association with symptoms present following a COVID infection.

That is interesting because in the original article he never once mentioned potential or actual biological changes, where in other threads in this Forum i have shared many such papers that that is happening.

Anyway, make of that what you will, my comments almost certainly could have been presented better.


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 Post subject: Re: Long Covid.
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:47 am 
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Your comments and the quotes were very well presented and were easily followed. It certainly seems that Jeff had a mandate to downplay Long COVID rather than present a balanced synopsis. Anger is the appropriate response!

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 Post subject: Re: Long Covid.
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:24 pm 
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Thanks for your kind words Steve, i had a lot more to say about the article but i decided to cut much of it out, i simply felt i didn't actually have to rip Jeff's article apart line by line too make my point.

I hope/think i got my point across with the examples i gave.

As an aside, i thought i'd try and find out who exactly Jeff Wise is and what his background is, e.g. what qualified him to write such an ill-informed article?

It turns out he's clearly a well educated man with interests in aviation, zoology, evolutionary biology, and psychology etc.

cf. His website:
http://jeffwise.net/about-the-author/

Quite why he decided to write about epidemiology and Covid-19 is a mystery given he apparently has no (or little) training in those fields, that said, he clearly loves a mystery given the number of articles he's published about the missing flight MH370.

Quote:
I was labelled as suffering many things (perceived or actual) during my illness, but an activist and/or lobbyist is a first, maybe i should add that to the long list of symptoms i suffered from...

Activism and lobbyism syndrome ~ Jeff Wise - March 2023
:rofl2:


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 Post subject: Re: Long Covid.
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:19 pm 
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It's 3 years to the day since the first lockdown in the UK, so obviously the mainstream media is full of Covid related news.

A couple jumped out at me but i'll keep the content to a minimum and rely on headlines and links so this isn't a longer post than it needs to be... that said, one of the articles reminded me of something i posted about in this thread that i needed to follow up on but forgot about, i'll give a short quotes from them with direct Forum links further down.

One in 50 people in Scotland had long Covid - landmark study
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65056619

One in 50 seems to me to be unbelievable, therin lies the issue of how Long Covid is defined, i guess.

cf. The pre-print for the above can be found here:

Identifying Long Covid Using Electronic Health Records
March 2023: Research submitted to The Lancet Digital Health* looks at how many people in Scotland have Long Covid, based on electronic health records.
https://www.ed.ac.uk/usher/eave-ii/connected-projects/long-covid/project-outputs/identifying-long-covid-electronic-health-records
-----------------------------------

Previous posts...

Quote:
Long covid—an update for primary care
https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj-2022-072117

As an side, i emailed my medical practice tonight to ask (make sure) if my medical file has the electronic code that this sentence mentions:
Quote:
Most general practices have far fewer patients with a long covid diagnostic code on their electronic health record

I want to make sure it does because if anything else pops in the years to come that might be related to Covid i damn well want to make sure they look at it in the right way!
Source: https://computerhaven.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=29444#p29444

Quote:
An update on my medical file having the electronic code for Long Covid, when my GP called me last week about joining a group therapy session that she felt might benefit me she also said she'd spoken to the lead doctor within the medical practice about the coding... neither my GP nor the the lead knew about the BMJ recommendation but they both thought it was an excellent idea, sadly their software doesn't yet support that function, they are in the process of upgrading the software and will make sure that the Long Covid code is added to all their Long Covid patient files as soon as is possible.
My GP has promised to let me know when the coding is added to my file, i trust her but i'll believe it when i get the phone call saying it's added, in the meantime i'll be waiting and watching.

I take that as a massive step forward not just for me but for everyone else like me, it just may save a lot of mis-diagnosis and premature death in the future.
Source: https://computerhaven.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=29548#p29548

I haven't heard anything about my file having had an electronic code added for Long Covid so i'll email my medical practice tomorrow to make sure they have followed up on that promise, and if they haven't, ask why not.


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 Post subject: Re: Long Covid.
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:52 pm 
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I really hope this podcast is freely available to everyone without a subscription (or VPN) to the UK broadsheet, 'The Guardian'.

I don't subscribe to The Guardian so unless there are global geographic restrictions i don't see why the rest of the world couldn't access it in one way or another?

Three years on: are we any closer to understanding long Covid? - Thu 23 Mar 2023 05.00 GMT
Quote:
Ian Sample hears from Scotland’s Astronomer Royal Catherine Heymans about her experience of long Covid and how it has impacted her life. He also speaks to Professor Danny Altmann, an immunologist at Imperial College London, about the current scientific understanding of the condition, and whether we’re any closer to a treatment.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/audio/2023/mar/23/three-years-on-are-we-any-closer-to-understanding-long-covid


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 Post subject: Re: Long Covid.
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:48 pm 
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I've saved that podcast link to listen to when I have a chance -- I subscribe to The Guardian digitally here in the US. I've never accessed their podcasts before, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Long Covid.
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:46 pm 
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sboots wrote:
I've saved that podcast link to listen to when I have a chance -- I subscribe to The Guardian digitally here in the US. I've never accessed their podcasts before, though.

That podcast was a first for me as well, The Guardian isn't a news outlet prior to Covid that i really paid much attention too.... [nothing to do with their political stance]... they just produced articles that in the past i didn't find easy too read.

That said, since Covid The Guardian does keep on popping up with articles that opens my eyes a little bit wider.

As for the podcast, it's very succinct and leaves little doubt about how debilitating Long Covid can be, and can still be etc... along with the current scientific understanding of the disease.


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 Post subject: Re: Long Covid.
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:32 pm 
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The Guardian really seems to be getting its teeth into Long Covid, which i think is long overdue for mainstream media to be doing, and very welcome.

Quote:
Two-thirds of UK workers with long Covid have faced unfair treatment, says report
TUC and charity call for better support and legal right to reasonable adjustments at work for sufferers
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/27/long-covid-two-thirds-workers-unfair-treatment-report

cf: Prevalence of ongoing symptoms following coronavirus (COVID-19) infection in the UK: 2 February 2023
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/prevalenceofongoingsymptomsfollowingcoronaviruscovid19infectionintheuk/2february2023

For those that aren't British the TUC stands for the "Trades Union Congress", put basically it's a congress of all UK Trade Unions where they decide what to do moving forward, akin to a business body not unlike the G5 or G20 etc.:
https://www.tuc.org.uk/

The ONS is a British government body, the "Office for National Statistics":
https://www.ons.gov.uk/

Mainstream media is too late to help me now but i welcome that they are now finally starting to ask the awkward questions.

As for the trade unions, i cancelled my membership with 'Unite' circa two years ago because they had no interest in helping me when i needed their help the most, i'm not sure if it was due to ignorance or lack of interest but as a former Trade Union Health & Safety rep i hope it was the former.

I won't rehash what i've already said in one of my other threads, but it has since come to light that the manager at the time i developed Long Covid, she has since apologised to me and admitted that she thought i never had any intention of returning to my job.
I still can't understand why she thought that, but the effect it had on me when i had to quit my job when the phased return to work i was supposed to be on turned out to be a work of fiction, it left me devastated, which to this day i am still trying to recover from.


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 Post subject: Re: Long Covid.
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:33 pm 
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I'm not going to flood this thread with mainstream media articles, but i will share this one as a point of note that mainstream media globally are apparently waking up to the devastation Long Covid has caused, and continues to cause:

Long COVID remains an uphill battle for many Americans: "Every day, getting up is a fight"
March 29, 2023 / 9:45 AM / CBS News
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/long-covid-symptoms-americans-every-day-getting-up-is-a-fight/

Quote:
Although COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations have decreased, long COVID remains a constant presence in the lives of many Americans.

Long COVID has affected millions of people globally, with individuals reporting a range of symptoms including fatigue, lung issues and neurological problems like brain fog.

While evidence indicates that most individuals substantially recover within a year, recent CDC data showed it has played a role in over 3,500 deaths in the U.S. from January 2020 through the end of June 2022.

Treva Taylor has been facing an uphill battle since her coronavirus diagnosis in January 2021, which nearly took the 57-year-old's life.

"It was scary because I remember my eyes being open, but everything was black," Taylor said. "I remember the nurse saying to me, 'You have to fight. The person next to you is dying. And if you don't, you're going to be in this body bag. You have to fight.'"

Now, she wants others who are suffering to know that long COVID is "very real."... continues


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 Post subject: Re: Long Covid.
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:07 pm 
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I have to say that i am massively impressed with Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City, all throughout the pandemic and my own experience of Long Covid, they have consistently proven to be at the cutting edge of what is happening... at least in as far as being one of the first orginisations to write about them.
It comes as no surprise that they are once again right up there...

Long COVID: Incidence, Impacts, And Implications
https://www.healthaffairs.org/content/forefront/long-covid-incidence-impacts-and-implications
David Putrino
March 29, 2023


The article is a very easy read and covers much of what i've been banging on about for almost the past 3 years, but best you make up your own minds about that.


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 Post subject: Re: Long Covid.
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 7:12 pm 
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These links are not definitive, they are in effect the former reporting on the latter who is calling for more research into an area that is as yet not explained or researched, but is now known about.
Put simply, yet another example of science catching up on what happened to me.

Sleep Disturbances Prevalent in Long COVID
https://neurosciencenews.com/sleep-disturbances-long-covid-22946/

source:
Sleep Disturbance Severity and Correlates in Post-acute Sequelae of COVID-19 (PASC)
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-023-08187-3
Quote:
Post-acute COVID-19 syndrome (PASC) is a global public health crisis in which patients experience lingering and debilitating symptoms beyond 4 weeks after the acute onset of SARS-CoV-2 infection. Sleep disturbance has a reported prevalence of 34–50% in PASC, but only a few studies have identified associated risk factors, and these have primarily described sleep quality and not symptom severity. Likewise, studies to date have not investigated the interaction of mood disorders and fatigue with sleep disturbance severity or the association of objective sleep study indices in PASC.


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 Post subject: Re: Long Covid.
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 3:47 pm 
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I found this article/opinion piece interesting because i had hoped this would be one of many silver linings to emerge and be discussed.

Long COVID highlights why we need to overhaul the term ‘psychosomatic’
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-long-covid-highlights-we-why-need-to-overhaul-the-term-psychosomatic/
Quote:
...Many cases of long COVID have been associated with signs of illness that are difficult to observe. Patients are often struck by persistent fatigue and difficulty concentrating (commonly known as “brain fog”), along with other non-specific ailments including palpitations, dizziness, headache, insomnia, and mood dysregulation. This constellation of symptoms is non-specific and common to other distressing syndromes and chronic illnesses from across the medical spectrum. Patients who are suffering debilitating symptoms in the absence of verifiable, objective signs of illness can understandably feel insulted and/or dismissed when doctors suggest their condition may be “psychosomatic” (traditionally viewed, too simplistically, as a physical ailment caused by mental distress as opposed to a physical condition.)...


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 Post subject: Re: Long Covid.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2023 9:38 pm 
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It has been a while since i searched 'Google Scholar' for information but tonight i did and two links immediately jumped out at me that i feel potentially explain a lot of what i went through.

A few points to note before i go there though, both are from a website called 'Springer Link' that i've never heard of before, also afaict there is no link to the original source so don't take them as fact, that said they do appear to make sense and so are probably genuine.

Apologies in advance for the length of the second quote below, i couldn't work out how to trim that without losing a lot of the context so posted more than might have been necessary.

Melatonin’s Benefits as a Treatment for COVID-19 Pandemic and Long COVID
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-981-99-0240-8_24
Quote:
Abstract

Melatonin has been recognized for its therapeutic potential as a chronobiotic cytoprotective drug to combat the effects of COVID-19 infection. Melatonin may be unique in mitigating the symptoms of SARS-CoV-2 infection due to its wide-ranging actions as an antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, and immunomodulatory chemical. Furthermore, melatonin is an efficient chronobiotic drug in treating delirium and reversing the circadian disturbance caused by social isolation. Melatonin is a cytoprotector that helps to treat various comorbidities, including diabetes, metabolic syndrome, and ischemic and nonischemic cardiovascular disease, all of which increase COVID-19 illness. As the COVID-19 pandemic continues, it has become known that clinical sequelae and symptoms for a considerable number of patients may linger for weeks to months beyond the acute stage of SARS-CoV-2 infection (long COVID). Based on indications of neurological sequelae in COVID-19-infected individuals, there is another possible use of melatonin based on its documented neuroprotective properties. Melatonin is an excellent agent for controlling cognitive deterioration (brain fog) and pain in myalgic encephalomyelitis (i.e., chronic fatigue syndrome); therefore, its therapeutic importance for the neurological consequences of SARS-CoV-2 infection should be investigated.


Memory loss in patients with long COVID can be due to reduced hippocampal neurogenesis
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00406-023-01610-0
Quote:
The post-coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) condition, commonly known as “long COVID,” is defined by the World Health Organization (WHO) as the continuation or development of new symptoms 3 months after the initial severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection, with these symptoms lasting for at least 2 months with no other explanation [1, 2].

Studies have widely clarified that “long COVID” after discharge from hospital include a mixture of neuropsychiatric complaints, such as defective instant verbal memory and learning, deferred verbal memory difficulties, verbal fluency problems, working memory issues, anxiety, depression, and post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) [1, 2]. These complaints can persist for at least 1 year [2]. In some COVID-19 patients, cognitive impairments can even deteriorate over time [2]. Although several pathological mechanisms have been proposed by the author [1], the pathological basis of these symptoms remains unknown.

The hippocampus has imperative functions in spatial and episodic memory [3] as well as learning [4]. In addition, the hippocampus plays an accompanying imperative role in neurogenesis [5] by self-reproducing multipotent adult neural stem cells (NSCs) located in the subgranular zone (SGZ) of the dentate gyrus (DG) [5, 6]. However, the hippocampus, as a vulnerable configuration, can be upset by various neurological and psychiatric disorders [4]. Since the hippocampus is predominantly susceptible to injuries caused by COVID-19 [1], there is increasing evidence indicating the possibility of post-infection memory loss [2, 7].

To explore the etiology of post-infection memory loss in “long COVID,” the role of activated microglial cells has already been highlighted by the author [1, 2]. In this regard, COVID-19 can activate microglia in the hippocampus and induce a central nervous system (CNS) cytokine storm, leading to loss of hippocampal neurogenesis [1, 2]. The activation of microglia in the hippocampus of deceased patients with “long COVID” and cognitive impairments as well as mild COVID-19 animal model was shown to be due to elevated levels of C–C motif chemokine ligand 11 (CCL11), leading to inhibited neurogenesis [8]. Activated pro-inflammatory microglia through inflammatory mediators, such as tumor necrosis factor alpha (TNF-α), interleukin-1 alpha (IL-1α), complement component 1q, and IL-1β, can then activate pro-inflammatory astrocytes and fuel a secondary inflammatory response [1, 2]. Consequently, this disturbs hippocampal neuronal cells, leading to memory difficulties and neuronal apoptosis. These pathological pathways can explain the potential damaging consequences of SARS-CoV-2-linked glial activation, neuroinflammation, and apoptosis [1, 2]. This can eventually disturb hippocampal neuronal cells, leading to memory difficulties and neuronal apoptosis [1, 2].

Therefore, the reduced neurogenesis, which was shown in the COVID-19 group [9], could be due to microglial activation and the subsequent production of inflammatory cytokines, such as TNF-α, IL-6, and IL-1β, causing neuroinflammation and the resultant impaired neurogenesis [1, 2, 9]. This eventually results in cognitive decline due to the destruction of spatial memory and learning [1, 2, 9]. These implications on the hippocampus, especially the loss of hippocampal neurogenesis in the brains of COVID-19 patients, elucidate learning, memory, and executive impairments in COVID-19 patients compared with uninfected healthy controls [10].

As a result, memory loss in patients with “long COVID” can be due to reduced hippocampal neurogenesis. This negative consequence is mediated by inflammatory mediators secreted by activated microglia in the hippocampus, which can induce a cytokine storm in the CNS. This highlights the specific susceptibility of the hippocampus to neuroinflammation. A better perspective of the cellular features of COVID-19 brain injury could assist in interventions to ease long-term neuropsychiatric complaints. In addition, the neuropathology of COVID-19 may provide a replica for decoding the neurodegenerative mechanisms related to neuroinflammation in other brain diseases and for developing new therapeutic strategies.


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 Post subject: Re: Long Covid.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:02 pm 
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Yes, it's a long quote, but certainly an interesting one. The first article, pointing out the potential benefits of Melatonin as a treatment is very interesting. You had some success with that, I recall.

Thanks for continuing to share this information.

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 Post subject: Re: Long Covid.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:49 pm 
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sboots wrote:
Yes, it's a long quote, but certainly an interesting one. The first article, pointing out the potential benefits of Melatonin as a treatment is very interesting. You had some success with that, I recall.

Thanks for continuing to share this information.

My whole journey through the pandemic has been fascinating, certainly not one that i want to relive but nonetheless when i look back now, omg what a journey!

Melatonin was and continues to be a game changer for me but thankfully as time passes i need to rely on it less and less... the challenge now has become recognising (in the abscence of medical support within the UK) when i need to take some but thankfully i'm learning that through trial and error, a challenge i've faced since Aug 2020 because medics still have no answers, something i'm sadly now well used too.

I still take the odd probiotic from the "Phyto-v covid Study" when i feel i need too but that is also happening less and less
http://phyto-v.com/

Because there is no understanding of what causes Long Covid and how to treat it, it destroyed my life, i have no option but to continue the fight to seek answers and share what i find along the way because even now hundreds of thousands of people globally are being effected by Long covid every week, if not every day.


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 Post subject: Re: Long Covid.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2023 11:19 pm 
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As an aside, i never in my wildest dreams would have ever thought the day would come that i would be educating the medical profession but that's exactly the position i found myself in during 2020, i struggle to believe that 3 years later i still have the same unanswered questions but here we are.

32 months (and counting) of lost income, life in tatters, no job, no social support... it's been a perfect storm of abandonment but i won't give in.


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 Post subject: Re: Long Covid.
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:24 pm 
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This is very interesting and i wish i could read more but afaict tell this is all that's been released, so far?

The page says at the end of the article "Original Research: The findings will appear in Neurology"; i've searched the neurology section and can't find anything that links to this article.

The article isn't a difficult or long read but that said it is hard to differentiate between 'Covid' and 'long Covid' in the way the article is written, which is why i've always capitalised the word 'long' when i type "Long Covid", it makes it so much easier to read... i do wish the media etc understood that and took it onboard.

Anyway, mini-rant over...

Long COVID’s Lingering Impact: Brain Function Changes Can Persist for Months
https://neurosciencenews.com/brain-function-long-covid-23121/
April 26, 2023

Quote:
Summary: People with long COVID have abnormal brain activity during memory tests, months after their initial COVID-19 infection, with less activity in the regions normally used for memory tasks, but more activity in other areas of the brain.

Although people who had COVID-19 had cognitive test scores similar to those who never had a history of coronavirus, those who had long COVID had greater brain activation on a working memory task compared to people without prior COVID-19 infections.


Key Facts:

1. People with long COVID who have persistent neuropsychiatric symptoms showed abnormal brain activity months after COVID-19 infection during memory tests.
2. People who had COVID-19 had cognitive test scores similar to those who never had a history of COVID-19, but people who had long COVID had greater brain activation on a working memory task compared to people without prior COVID-19 infections.
3. The study does not prove that COVID-19 caused the brain changes, and a limitation of the study was that it was conducted mainly during the delta variant phase of the pandemic in the United States, so the results do not necessarily show whether newer coronavirus variants may affect the brain similarly.

continues...


There are many observations i could make about this article but i'm pretty sure if you've been reading my posts you'll know the ones i would question... that said, one does stand out that makes no sense whatsoever...
Quote:
A limitation of the study was that it was conducted mainly during the delta variant phase of the pandemic in the United States, so the results do not necessarily show whether newer coronavirus variants may affect the brain similarly.
Edited for emphasis.


Why skip the original Wuhan, Alpha, Beta, and Gamma variants that all came before Delta and write a paper that reads like the virus began with Delta??
cf. SARS-CoV-2 Variant Classifications and Definitions
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/variant-classifications.html

To conclude with a limitation it was carried out during the Delta variant and ignore the fact that the prior variants were equally, if not almost certainly more pathogenic, is akin too rewriting history and borderline immoral and unethical.

Even though on the surface i like the findings of this paper, i'm really struggling to understand where the ethics are in this article.


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 Post subject: Re: Long Covid.
 Post Posted: Sun May 14, 2023 9:59 pm 
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I thought this was an intersting slant on raising Long Covid awareness (and ME/CFS), a mod for some games...

Forget hard mode — you can now play these video games on 'Long COVID Mode' to experience what patients do
https://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/forget-hard-mode-you-can-now-play-these-video-games-on-long-covid-mode-to-experience-what-patients-do-1.6397433


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 Post subject: Re: Long Covid.
 Post Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 10:10 am 
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That is certainly an interesting way of raising awareness!

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 Post subject: Re: Long Covid.
 Post Posted: Thu May 25, 2023 11:38 pm 
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I see the US mainstream media are all over this JAMA study, afaict the UK media haven't picked up on it yet but i strongly suspect they will very soon and it'll be reported in the same way...

Development of a Definition of Postacute Sequelae of SARS-CoV-2 Infection
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/10.1001/jama.2023.8823?guestAccessKey=1fbcad3a-e2ab-492f-8dcc-0288c178fb94&utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm_term=052523

Now, before i get into what i have to say about this i need to make clear that at time of writing this i haven't yet read the full published study because it's a huge article that's going to take me some time to read...

That said if the following from the Washington Post is anything to go by then it needs some serious work on how they classify "Long Covid" symptoms!
Quote:
The 12 symptoms of long covid

To meet the study’s definition of long covid, a participant needed to score a total of 12 points once all their symptoms were added up. The 12 key symptoms and their corresponding scores are:

Loss of smell or taste: 8 points.
Post-exertional malaise: 7 points.
Chronic cough: 4 points.
Brain fog: 3 points.
Thirst: 3 points.
Heart palpitations: 2 points.
Chest pain: 2 points.
Fatigue: 1 point.
Dizziness: 1 point.
Gastrointestinal symptoms: 1 point.
Issues with sexual desire or capacity: 1 point.
Abnormal movements (including tremors, slowed movements, rigidity, or sudden, unintended and uncontrollable jerky movements): 1 point.
...
Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/05/25/long-covid-symptoms-recover-study/

For example:
'Loss of smell or taste' & 'post-exertional malaise' are common after any number of infections, they can happen after the common cold or flu etc. Yet between them they would score 15 points and automatically fit the symptoms for a diagnosis of Long Covid under this criteria.
I'm not saying that that couldn't happen but it does beg the question why do they score so high?

I think i've well documented my symptons here over a very long time period and never once have i said i lost smell or taste, i did however have an altered sense of taste for a period when everything tasted of petrol or diesel, but that's not a loss of taste or smell and should not be considered as such (neither would i consider either as debilitating)... yet it wouldn't qualify for the 8 points :shock:

I also never had a cough, dry or otherwise... another 4 points lost.

What i did have from the list as posted on The Washington Post article was...

Post-exertional malaise: 7 points. Though i classified that as 'fatigue" at the time so maybe it would only count as 1 point?
Brain fog: 3 points.
Dizziness: 1 point.
Gastrointestinal symptoms: 1 point.
Issues with sexual desire or capacity: 1 point. [Who knows what that's meant to mean but i was so ill i wasn't interested so i'll claim the point.]
Abnormal movements (including tremors, slowed movements, rigidity, or sudden, unintended and uncontrollable jerky movements): 1 point.

At best on the list as reported on The Washingron Post i'd have scraped in with 13 points despite feeling near to death and barely able to communicate, if at the time if i was asked those question i'd have classed 'post-exertional malaise' as 'fatigue' and only scored 8 points, despite suffering well over 50 symptoms i was living with that don't fall neatly into a pigeon hole that medics now seem to conveniently want people like me too fall into and/or ignore.

While i thinks it's great the media is talking about this now i can't help feel seriously let down, has investigative journalism died?


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