Hi Folks.

One big tip. The concept of treat the VM like a real computer is good with one exception. Memory. I give my machines big hard drives, all of them have 2 100gb hard drives. But Ram is different. I could easily give my machines 4 gb, but I don't. I keep them at 2.5 to 3.0gb

The reason. In a real computer is real ram chips and they are fast. But in a VM the ram is actually a disk on the system. And if it's too big it's going to be slower. So the smaller the better.

Pete

bbarry, the tip that Peter mentions above is one of the tips that I mentioned earlier. You CAN give a VM too much RAM. On a "real" system, the more RAM the better, but not on a VM. I don't know the technology, but VM's have a harder time emulating the hardware than they do the software and when you think about it, it makes sense. The hardware of a VM is simply contained in files of the real system, how can files realistically contain hardware?

In your case, wanting to install XP, I would not allow more than 2 gig of memory inside the VM, that always worked good for me, too much more than that and you WILL start to slow down.
Acadia

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The blazing evidence of immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution. -- Emerson

That's right. Remember paging files? That's actually virtual memory. You don't hear much about paging file issues these days due to the enormous amounts of physical RAM we now have. If you recall, there was a time when the best thing you could do to speed up a machine was add more RAM. Still is true today, but it doesn't come up as an issue as often.

So why is a paging file (virtual memory), or virtual memory in a VM, so slow? Because the "choke point" (the place where things bottle up) of any computer is the hard drive. And if you're counting on virtual memory, it is simply space allocated on the hard drive. This is also why solid state drives speed up the system as much as they do. They are just like RAM, no platters spinning, etc.

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Patty MacDuffie
Computer Haven Administrator

Live Long and Prosper
Mr. Spock

Pete, thanks to you and Acadia for this tip. Back in 2007 when I installed my XP mode, I didn't have much ram to start with. Plus I had read someplace about keeping VM ram small. So on my old computer running XP mode, I only allocated 512 MB. And this seemed to be sufficient for the three programs I wanted to run in XP mode.

So if XP mode works on my new computer, I was again going to allocate only 512 MB since I won't really do alot in this mode. Do you think that will be sufficient, or should I maybe bump it up to 1 GB?

Another question I have. In XP mode I never connect to the internet. But I noticed in the settings that my one adapter was Shared Network (NAT). Would it be better to change this setting to Not Connected, which appears to be the only choice I have for turning the adapter off?

Thanks again.........

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

The beauty of VM's. You can try and no harm done. If 512 mb was good before why not start there. You should be able to change it later. Note I say that based on experience with VMware Workstation.

Same is try with the NAT adapter. Try it turned off and see what happens.

Pete

1) Yes, I would disable NAT.

2) If you are over 4GB of physical RAM go ahead and give XP 1GB, just MIGHT improve performance slightly. If you don't see a performance increase drop back down to 512MB.

3) I'm sorry but all above replies about memory being virtual in a virtual machine are wrong. At least this is true if you use MS's Virtual PC. Virtual PC relies on the processor/mother board being able to emulate hardware at the hardware level, not strictly software. Virtual PC uses actual system RAM which is one of the reasons why it runs so fast. It is possible that it may take a BIOS change to make this aspect work. You would be looking for enable/disable hardware emulation in the BIOS. I can't off hand, remember the exact term but let me know the BIOS name, supplier and version number, and I MAY be able to give instructions. Just for a little backup on what I'm saying look at the following link.
https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/lib ... 2147217396
To possibly shorten things I will quote one line from the above MS article...

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That's cool. How about Hyper-V? Same?

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Patty MacDuffie
Computer Haven Administrator

Live Long and Prosper
Mr. Spock

At this time I have no idea.

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OK.

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Patty MacDuffie
Computer Haven Administrator

Live Long and Prosper
Mr. Spock

Jay, I did as you suggested - downloaded/installed Virtual PC, pointed to where I had copied the XP Mode drive, and then started the process of setting up a virtual machine.

Sudddenly, there it was - the Win XP screen with all my program icons. Two of the programs ran with no problem; the third lost it's path, but that is something I can work on even if I have to reinstall that program.

All that said, I ain't where I need to be. I must not have gotten into XP Mode, because I don't have access to my USB drives, and I definitely need my USB printer.

Any suggestions on what I did wrong to not end up in XP mode? It so happens that when I went to Virtual Settings to locate my XP Mode drive, it told me the drive name was 'Windows XP Mode.vhd'. However, I could not ever locate that drive - what I did find and used was XP-Pro Hard Disk.vhd (11.6GB). I also found but did not use VM XP-Pro.vhd (35KB).

So maybe I used the wrong XP Mode drive?

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

I don't have XP Mode installed so can't search the exact path but this link should help. Even when I did have it installed I did not use the default locations but rather created a folder on my data drive to hold.

You will find two locations through the thread, you will need both. You can also just search your system for .vhd and also .vmcx. You will need both.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... 522?auth=1

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OK, thanks Jay. I'll read/digest the link, although it may be in the morning before I get another head of steam.

I did find the Windows XP Mode.vmcx file earlier, and I wondered about it. In fact, that's the file that I right-clicked on to get the virtual drive settings. Are you saying point to it like I did the .vhd drive, because I don't remember ever having the chance to do that?

Do you think I can repair/recover at this point, or should I just uninstall Windows Virtual PC and start over?

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

I don't see a real need for a re-install but you may be betting donuts against dollars as to success. Go ahead and copy the files and set the Virtual PC to touch them but, in the long run, you may spend less time by installing XP in VirtualBox.

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After reading the link you sent me, I can see that I loaded the wrong .vhd file. So tomorrow I am going to uninstall all the stuff and make another run at it. It's now a matter of principle.

If principle loses this time I will strongly consider VirtualBox.

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

One more "tip" concerning using any VM. As long as you stick with installing XP inside of the VM you should be ok. Virtual Machines are so "real" that Microsoft considers it a real install on a real machine so you actually need a license for that OS. Win 7 would probably not work, Microsoft would consider it pirated or whatever, and my guess would be not allow it. I never had any problem installing XP because it is so old that Microsoft just does not care anymore. Of course I had a legitimate license for it but that was on another system. But since XP is so old, I installed XP many times inside of VirtualBox and Microsoft always accepted it.
Acadia

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The blazing evidence of immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution. -- Emerson

Acadia, I should be OK, even if I have to go with VirtualBox. All of my Microsoft products have been legit, although the last OS 'full' version I have is Windows 98. Thereafter, it was always upgrades, but my XP upgrade worked OK with XP Mode.

I'm going to try again this morning to get XP Mode successfully ported to my new computer. If that fails, I will install VirtualBox and probably coming back to you, Jay and Pete if I encounter problems. Thanks.....

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

bbarry, unless I misunderstood you, please reread my post. Even if you have a legit license for whatever you want to install, IT WILL NOT WORK if it does not past MS checking. They already have you registered on your original system and unless you cancel it, they would consider it a second install of the same license and NOT allow it. To repeat myself, at least in my experience, XP is a non-issue. But since you don't intend to install Win7, if I am correct about that, you should be OK. Just want you to understand that VMs are so realistic that MS considers them another system and will DEMAND a license in order for it to work. In the case of XP they just don't care anymore. Again, sorry if I misunderstood your post above.
Acadia

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The blazing evidence of immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution. -- Emerson

Acadia, thanks for the warning. But I don't intend to install Win 7 Pro......it came preinstalled on my new computer, accompanied by a Win 7 Pro OEM disc.

The only thing I'm trying to install is Windows XP Mode so I can run a few very old programs that won't run under Win 7 64-bit. This is the configuration I have on my old Win 7 Ultimate 64-bit computer, and I'm just trying to duplicate it on my new computer.

If Windows XP Mode installation fails, then I will be looking at VirtualBox.

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

OK, here are the facts.

1) XP Mode needed no key code as it was embedded in XP Mode itself. There was no question of a legit install as it was self contained.

2) Even though, if VirtualBox is used, there are ways to do a clean install of XP from an upgrade disk it is still illegal. Even though XP is past its end of life MS still holds copyright rights. No, Microsoft is not likely to react or anything but it is still not actually legal.

3) IF YOU MAKE IT KNOWN THAT YOU ARE DOING A CLEAN INSTALL FROM AN UPGRADE DISK I will not, in good conscience be able to offer any help. I will be sending you a PM to alleviate this situation.

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I just wanted to provide an interim report.......I am making progress with my install of XP Mode on my new computer!! I used Jay's suggestion of installing only Virtual PC and then copying over the XP Mode drive from my old computer. Jay also provided me with a link on where to find the drive .vhd files (I had first used the incorrect drive file).

After a few tries, all that worked and there it was - my XP desktop! Then the system starting doing some updates.......100 to be exact, which I assumed was bringing XP up to date (SP3?). Then I was given the option of updating the integration features, which I did. After that, the XP desktop re-appeared, this time with USB capability!

Unfortunately, the USB connects aren't yet working, but my internet research indicates this may be because my USB devices are connected to 3.0 ports rather than 2.0 ports. I am getting ready to make the port switch to see if that solves the USB problem.

A 2nd problem I need to work through is the fact that one of my programs didn't come over and needs to be reinstalled in XP. Instead of seeing the usual program icon on the XP desktop, I see the standard 'setup' icons (box of discs). But this is a problem I think I can solve, as I still have the installation discs.

So thanks much to Jay and others who provided help along this XP path. I will get there, else there is always VirtualBox.........

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

Latest Update - I still can't get the USB connects to work, even after I switched then to USB 2.0 ports. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I read where one user went into his BIOS and changed some USB setting; his devices then worked in XP Mode, but he lost his 3.0 capability on his host Win 7 computer. I certainly don't want to do that.

Thanks in advance.........

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

Probably turned off the USB 3 capability in the BIOS but you should not need to do this. I ran XP Mode including USB 3 on my laptop without issue. Even if you did have to lose USB 3 what would you actually lose? It isn't going to really affect a printer/scanner just external storage. Of course USB 3 verses USB 2 is a big difference if doing an image to an external don't you, if memory serves, tend to start an external image and go to bed and let it run over night? Normally I would not even mention this aspect except that you have a rather unique situation where it is very important to you that these programs work. Eventually you MAY have to come up with a balance between overall system performance and your XP programs.

The first step would be to go to your BIOS and make sure that hardware emulation is enabled.

The second step would be to update the Integration Components package. Remember that this is a different system from the old one where these components were initially installed. The new system has different hardware to integrate. I know that this has been done. Do it again. I can't remember if it is possible but, if so, remove the integration and then install again. Remember that you MUST actually shutdown and restart XP Mode after any install or update of integration. Sleep or hibernate will not suffice. XP Mode MUST actually be shut down and restarted. It is no different than having to do a restart on a physical system after a driver install.

On the other hand you MAY find the info in this link helpful. Look toward the bottom. XP Mode tends to not automatically attach USB devices. You usually have to attach them manually.
http://www.digitalcitizen.life/how-work-windows-xp-mode

You also have to look at the time you are spending and decide if it is worth it. You just may find it less troublesome to go with VirtualBox even though it would not be integrated with Win 7. By that I mean that you would actually have to launch VirtualBox instead of being able to launch your programs directly from Win 7. On the following statement please keep in mind that I have not used VirtualBox in several years so the following may no longer apply. When I tried VirtualBox I still found it to have issues with USB even though USB worked. Things like a flash drive were pretty easy but things like printers and scanners could be an issue demanding the configuration of several options that were not all that easy to figure out.

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Jay, I've used XP Mode for many years, so I was familiar with what the author was describing in the link you sent me (and thanks for that). He and I do differ on one thing, however. He stated that "A great feature of Windows XP Mode is that you can launch applications installed in this mode, directly from the Windows 7 Start Menu." I know you can do that, but I've found it to be a slow process. For me, it's much faster to open XP Mode via an icon left on my Win 7 task bar.....then when I want to return to my Win 7 desktop, I just click on the minimize sign (-) on the XP Mode task bar. I can then go back and forth with just a couple of clicks.

But that's just a personal preference. HOWEVER, reading the link did reveal what I guess is a major problem in the installation of XP Mode on my new computer, as follows:

The link stated that "After you install Windows XP Mode, you can find it in Start Menu -> All Programs -> Windows Virtual PC -> Windows XP Mode or you can search for 'xp mode' in the Start Menu's search box and click on the appropriate search result." Well, that's true on my old computer, but not so on my new computer. When I click on XP Mode on my new computer I get an error message that says XP Mode must be downloaded and installed.

I never did download/install XP Mode because I thought you had previously suggested that I install just Virtual PC and then copy the XP Mode driver over. Which is what I did.

So maybe I misunderstood. Was I to then download/install XP Mode? I'm certainly prepared to do that, and maybe that will fix some of my issues. Needless to say, since I haven't yet done that, I don't see any XP Mode Applications listed under Windows Virtual PC when I click Start->All Programs->Windows Virtual PC.

I'm not yet ready to give up on XP Mode......it has served me well since 2007, and I think it will continue to do so if I can just get it properly installed on my new computer.

Please let me know whether I should now download/install XP Mode.........thanks.

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

Phew... No, it was my bad. I never considered potential registry entries involved with actually installing XP Mode. You have to remember that I haven't used this in a LONG time and am going strictly from memory.

Yes, install XP Mode to register it with the system but then point Virtual PC to your old virtual drive. Again, since this is no longer supported, the new XP Mode install MAY fail on setup. Even if the setup process fails it should still register with the system and show up under the path through All programs. You SHOULD also be able to get to the settings for XP mode where you could, hopefully, be able to point the thing to your old XP Mode virtual drive.

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Thanks, Jay. I will do that first thing in the morning and keep you posted. I'm kinda thinking that XP Mode will install just fine. A few days ago I did locate instructions on a Microsoft website that I've been studying. In case you are interested, here it is:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... #section_3

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BB
http://barrypatch.net