Jay, for the past couple of years I've been able to solve my own computer issues, mostly minor ones. But now I've encountered one on my primary Velocity/Win 10 computer that I can't handle. So I return to the Master for help.

A little history: No signal was going to my monitor, so it probably needs a new graphics card. I know how to do this replacement installation. But before I order a replacement card from either Amazon or Newegg (refurbished) I need to solve another problem. And this is where I need help.

I went into my BIOS to check on the boot manager sequence, making sure that my CD/DVD player was still included. When I exited BIOS, I must have hit the wrong key and now my system is totally dead. I can no longer access BIOS, and my keyboard is even dead (so I can't use the F2 key).

I need to fix this BIOS problem before I spend $350 on a new graphics card. This is where I would appreciate your help. But please bear in mind that I just turned 84 and my old mind is not very sharp these days.

Thanks in advance.....BB

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

First, welcome back.

First I would reset the BIOS. Some current systems actually have a button for this in the back panel. If yours does not I afraid that you will need to open the case and remove the nickle sized watch type battery and let it sit for a minute or two. This will basically reset the BIOS to the default settings.

Does your mother board include video but you are using a stand alone card? If so try connecting your monitor to the mother board's video output and see what happens. It is possible that a BIOS setting changed and the system wants to use the built in video.

Come back with results. Oh, also remember to remove all power, pop the power button a few times, and connect power and try. Amazing how many issues that solves...

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Jay, I don't see a BIOS reset button (my computer is 6 years old). The case is already open, but I can't see the battery....perhaps I can tomorrow in the daylight (old eyes, lol). Also, I tried your trick of popping the power button, but that didn't help. Removing the battery tomorrow is probably my best bet.

Funny that you mentioned a motherboard video. I don't see one, but a strange thing happened today in my search for a video card solution. Sequence went as follows:
- First I replaced the HDMI cable; didn't help
- Then I tried a DVI cable; didn't help
- So I removed the GeForce GTX950 card that came with my computer (preinstalled by Velocity)
- I reinserted the card but forgot to reattach the power cable (I read that removal/reinsertion sometime solved the problem)
- I started up my computer and the monitor worked with the error message "No Boot Manager - press Ctrl-Alt-Del"
- I had to do this a couple of times, but then the Boot Manager screen popped up and I selected Windows Boot Manager
- Sure enough all that worked and I could see my usual desktop
- However, the resolution was bad and the desktop icons had been moved around
- I then realized that I had failed to connect the power cable for the GeForce
- This made me think that there was indeed a motherboard video in addition to the GeForce card
- But since I had working video, I decided to reboot and go back into BIOS to study my Boot Manager options
- I made the CD/DVD player first, what I thought was my SSD second, and the Windows default third
- I then exited BIOS and must have done so incorrectly, because my system is now totally locked up

That's the long version of how I got to this point. But I am optimistic that removing the battery will solve my problem, once I can find it.

As before, thanks for your help. I will keep you posted.

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

Sorry for the delay in responding....doctor appointment this morning.

Jay, I can't locate the CMOS battery, and believe me I have looked. The only area I can't see is behind the SSD mounted on the motherboard. Surely they wouldn't have put the CMOS battery there.

I will contact Velocity for help. In the interim I thought you might have some ideas.

My motherboard is: Asus Z170-P Intel Z170 based chipset, ATX Motherboard (ATX is the chassis type).

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

Jay, Velocity tech told me where to look for battery. It was hidden behind the video card. So I will remove it for awhile and see what happens.

I still may not be able to view on my monitor what's going on unless my system does indeed have a built-in video card, as my stand-alone GeForce card is the one that quit working.

I will keep you posted.

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

Don't leave the CMOS battery out. Once removed and let sit for a few minutes put the battery back.

BTW, did you try again with the power connected to the stand-alone card?

Your back panel should look like the following. Try removing the stand-alone video care and try a connection on the motherboard but only after resetting the CMOS.

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OK, battery back in (I actually inserted a brand new battery).

But I am a little confused about the video card(s). Sure enough, my back panel looked as you described. And I was using the HDMI port connected to my monitor when my stand alone video card was being used. But if I remove my stand alone card, I don't know how to connect to the motherboard unless it would be this same HDMI port. Am I missing something here?

Here are the steps I plan on following unless you tell me differently:
- Connect the stand alone card and power up the system. If this card is now working for some reason, then I should see the BIOS screen on my monitor
- But if I don't see the BIOS screen, I will power down, remove the stand alone card, power back up and hope that I do indeed have a default card on the motherboard.

Unless I can see the BIOS screen, I don't know how to work with the settings.

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

After removing the stand-alone card just connect to the HDMI port on the motherboard. If that works I would not bother replacing the stand alone card as the video through the motherboard is probably fine for what you do.

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OK, I am into BIOS with my stand alone card removed. I'm in what is called the EZ Mode, which I never saw before. But I like its simplicity, so I will stay with it for now. However, before I do anything else, I want to show you my current Boot Menu order to see what you think.
HL-DT-ST DVDRAM
Windows Boot Manager
UEFI Transcend (an external drive)
My two internal hard drives
NT- Samsung SSD 950 PRO

I would think that my SSD drive (my C-drive) should be either 2nd or 3rd, not last. But I think I need to go to the Advanced Mode to change the order.
Your opinion?

After I get the Boot Menu fixed, I want to exit to see if it goes to my Win 10 desktop. Then later I will reinsert the stand-alone card and see what happens. If it is still bad, I will order a new one from Newegg. Or I may just go with the motherboard card as you suggested. Again, thanks.....

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

Windows Boot Manager should go to the C: drive. Often going straight to the C: drive, bypassing the Windows Boot Manager, will fail.

Personally I only have my C: drive in the boot order. If I need to boot to a different device I just bring up the boot menu which, on my system, is F11. F9 is also common for this. Regardless, your boot order is fine.

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Well, I'm back to square one. I saved and exited BIOS, thinking I would go to my Win 10 desktop. But I didn't....the next thing that happened was the old error message on my monitor screen saying "No Signal". And now I can't even get back into BIOS because my keyboard is dead.

What do you think is causing this? Why does my monitor show the BIOS screen but not my Win 10 screen?

Should I again remove the battery and this time try my stand alone card? Any other suggestions?

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

I would try the stand-alone card in another system if possible. If it is OK I would seriously think of the motherboard being at fault. Even if the C: drive was fried you should still get a signal to the monitor.

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But why does my monitor show my BIOS screen and not my Win 10 screen? Why a BIOS screen and then a system crash on exit?

BTW, currently my stand alone card has been totally removed from my system, so my viewing success with BIOS was via the motherboard card.

Unfortunately the stand alone card would not fit in my other small Dell chassis. But when this problem started, I did unsuccessfully try a different monitor and a different HDMI cable.

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

It could be the motherboard or a fried drive. What makes me think the motherboard is more likely is that, if it were the drive, you should get a message on the monitor saying something like no bootable drive.

However, let's catch up. If you are consistently getting to the BIOS with success then I would question the drive. If not getting to the BIOS successfully, and considering you have tried two video cards, stand-alone and motherboard, I would have to go with the motherboard.

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Jay, I am not consistently getting to the BIOS. If I remove the CMOS battery and then reinstall it after about 5 minutes, then I can get to my EZ Mode BIOS. But when I save & exit BIOS, my system goes dead again. I get the 'No Signal' message and my keyboard & mouse no longer work.

Then the only way to get back to the BIOS is to remove the battery again and repeat the process. So per your logic, that might imply a bad motherboard.

I still wonder why does my monitor show my BIOS screen and not my Win 10 screen?

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

I really think it is the motherboard.

As to sometimes being able to get to the BIOS but not Windows they are two different things. The BIOS comes up before Windows even starts to load. BIOS stands for Basic Input Output System. When able to get to the BIOS you are actually seeing the UEFI firmware. As with BIOS this is totally separate from Windows.

Now it is possible that that just the port for your C: drive port has gone bad. Can this SSD be connected to a different port? If it can it is worth a shot. Way back in the days of Windows Vista I had a system that blew an IDE drive channel. I moved the drive connection to another port and all was fine.

Since you crash when trying to leave the BIOS, this is another indication of a motherboard issue. The CMOS chip itself could actually be faulty causing the crash when the BIOS is left. It MAY be possible to save the system but it would have to be taken to a shop for repair. With the system being 6 years old it is probably not worth the cost for repair.

It is also possible that the motherboard could be replaced if that is proven to be the issue but, once again, it is probably not worth the cost.

I'm sorry as I know what I'm saying is not what you want to hear. I'm just responding as best as I can with the given info.

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I always appreciate your responses, even if the news is bad.

As you know, I am an avid believer in backups, and I have several backups for this computer (Acronis, Macrium, Windows image). Some of the backups are on internal hard drives, and some are on external hard drives. If I purchase a new computer, will any of these backups do me any good? I have so many good applications and data on this computer that I would like to salvage. It would take me forever to duplicate what I have, including an XP virtual machine that you had me set up years ago when my mind was sharper.

It's my bedtime so I will check with you tomorrow. Thanks again for all your efforts.

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

Your backups would be valid but Windows probably not activate due to hardware differences. Since this would be a new system this would not be a factor.

As to things such as your data just make sure the new system has ports to be able to connect the old drives. VirtualBox should be fine but you would need to install and setup the VM again. There MAY be a glitch or two but it would pretty much just being to chose to use an existing file.

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My external drives are USB, so they should connect to the USB ports in a new system...right?

Assume that I order a new Velocity computer similar to my old one (SSD, 2 hard drives, Windows 10) and first back it up in the event of a problem. Then would I be able to use my old backups to restore on my new computer?

I have so much stuff on my old computer that it would take me forever and a day to rebuild. And at my age, I don't have forever, lol.

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

You can use your backups but there would still be an issue after a restore with activation. This would likely be solved by re-entering the new system's product code.

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Thanks, Jay. New computer may be the way I have to go, as I can't seem to fix the problems ongoing with my current Velocity computer. I first plan on discussing these problems with some Velocity techs and see if they have any ideas/suggestions.

I appreciate your help, as always.

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

Sounds like a plan and you are welcome.

Since you crash on saving to the CMOS I would suspect a faulty CMOS chip. Actually UEFI does not use a real CMOS chip like a legacy BIOS but rather a sort of flash memory. Still it does the same basic thing. Just as a thought... since the system crashes when saving the UEFI settings (I assume you have UEFI) have you tried leaving without saving or just not going to the settings whether BIOS or UEFI?

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The first thing I see is a message that says I need to go to setup by pressing F1. I don't know what would happen if I didn't press F1...I would probably just sit there. But I will try and see what happens.

Once I am in BIOS, I don't know how to leave without saving. But maybe there's a way.

I'll try both later tonight or in the morning. Got company coming over soon.

Just curious....is a UEFI memory chip easy to replace?

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

While the chip may be replaceable it would not be a normal home project unless you are REALLY good with a low wattage soldering iron as it is probably soldered in. On the other hand it IS possible that it could be in a socket but I have no way to know.

You may net be able to exit the BIOS/UEFI without saving in 'simple mode'. May need to be in 'advanced mode'. Also probably would need to be in advanced mode but you could also try loading default settings. This MAY clear the chip but I doubt.

Actually I just did a search and it seems that the chip MAY be in a socket, at least on some Asus boards. Look at the following link.

https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?61066-Obtaining-replacement-BIOS-Chip/page2

The link does not show the chip location or if it is soldered on your board but does show that it can be done on some boards. The conclusion is on the second page.

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Myself and bbarry don't exactly have a great history but i hope we can move past that.

Anyway, in the spirit of online friendship because time is too short to bear grudges forever i think this might be helpful:

I pulled this from the UK website (no reason why the US website should be significantly different) for Asus Z170-P support:

https://www.asus.com/uk/SupportOnly/Z170-P/HelpDesk_Knowledge/

After entering a checkmark into BIOS/Firmware on the page above i found ->
[Motherboard/Desktop] How to restore BIOS setting?
https://www.asus.com/uk/support/FAQ/1030210

Interestingly there are several different methods for resetting the BIOS on Asus motherboards, including a reset button on some ASUS motherboards and the old fashioned jumper method, most interesting in this case though is that when the CMOS battery is removed and replaced (according to the Z710-P support page), upon reboot F5 needs to be held down before the BIOS loads for the default values to be written to the BIOS.
I presume that means without holding down F5 on booting after the CMOS battery is removed (to reset) the BIOS it will not reset to default values... maybe this is the step that bbarry needs?

Downloading the manual first would be a wise move, i have a Gigabyte motherboard so i'm not familiar with Asus boards, i hope this helps.