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jaylach
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 Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:17 pm |
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OK.  Just wanted you to be aware of possibilities. I thought that you had an enclosure. If you ever get one don't.  Get a dock instead so you can just pop drives in and out. I have an enclosure where I can change drives but I find my dock easier as I can just pop in any drive (3.5 or 2.5 inch) and the drive just sticks out the top. Still, if you ever want to look at something new, you may want to look at the Linux Mint Live deal. I keep a flash drive with it installed and it works well. I have pulled data with it that was thought lost due to a bad drive. For it to work the data has to be on a different partition than the system partition. Well... not entirely true. If the bad drive is bad due to a bad MBR (Master Boot Record) the drive may not boot but, when mounted in Linux, may still be accessible.
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sboots
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Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:56 pm |
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Well done, bbarry. You did everything I would have done to confirm that the drive had indeed failed. A new drive and a clean install will get her going. And it is a good thing that she backs up her data to a USB drive. I hope you gave her a kudos for that! I would suggest that she consider getting a second cheap USB flash drive or external drive to have a second backup in case the first gets corrupt or fails. I like that you are pushing Libre Office and hope that you succeed as Office 2007 is long past end of life, as you already know. Since it is a desktop machine and she's likely got Internet access all the time, you may wish to show her Office online which is free (with a Microsoft Account login) with both Word and Excel (plus PowerPoint) in the web browser. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/free-office-online-for-the-web_________________ stephen boots Microsoft MVP 2004 - 2020 "Life's always an adventure with computers!"
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Acadia
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Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:14 am |
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Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:45 am
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sboots wrote: ...And it is a good thing that she backs up her data to a USB drive. I hope you gave her a kudos for that! ... I second the "kudos"! Such a simple thing that most folk don't do.  Bill
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The blazing evidence of immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution. -- Emerson
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Acadia
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Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:25 am |
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Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:45 am
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sboots wrote: ...I like that you are pushing Libre Office and hope that you succeed... Hey, Steve, do you use Libre Office or Microsoft Office? Curious because another person that I have a lot of respect for, computer knowledge wise, will only use Libre. Thanks, Bill
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The blazing evidence of immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution. -- Emerson
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bbarry
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Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:57 am |
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OK, a replacement Samsung hard drive has been ordered for my friend's computer, but it won't arrive for a week or so. @Jay, I also found a docking station for $23, so I went ahead and ordered it from Amazon Prime. I figured that would always be something handy to have around.
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sboots
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Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:51 am |
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Acadia wrote: sboots wrote: ...I like that you are pushing Libre Office and hope that you succeed... Hey, Steve, do you use Libre Office or Microsoft Office? Curious because another person that I have a lot of respect for, computer knowledge wise, will only use Libre. Thanks, Bill I am a Microsoft Office user. I have a subscription for Office365, now Microsoft 365. -steve _________________ stephen boots Microsoft MVP 2004 - 2020 "Life's always an adventure with computers!"
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Doddie
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Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:46 pm |
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I'd just like to throw the following into the mix: Not sure if it'll help or not but i haven't seen any mention of running a diagnostic tool supplied by the HDD manufacturer. I'm going to assume that the Samsung HDD being 5 years old means it isn't an SSD drive (Samsung now only manufacture and sell SSD's, with support only available from Samsung), with that in mind, Seagate bought the Samsung HDD business back in 2011 and have a series of tools for diagnosing Samsung, Seagate, Maxtor etc HDD's called SeaTools. For example: https://www.seagate.com/gb/en/support/downloads/seatools/Snipped from the SeaTools for Windows Guide [pdf]: Quote: SeaTools for Windows is a comprehensive, easy-to-use diagnostic tool that helps you quickly determine the
condition of the disk drive in your external hard drive, desktop or notebook computer. It includes several
tests that will examine the physical media on your Seagate, Maxtor or Samsung disk drive and any nonSeagate disk drive. SeaTools for Windows should run on both internal and external hard drives. Note the last sentence as it confims internal drives are included.Hope that helps and good luck.
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jaylach
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Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:03 pm |
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 9460
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
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Thanks Doddie. Dell's diagnostics was run but Sea Tools is more comprehensive. Does it allow creating a boot disk? I have it installed and don't see an option for that. This would be needed as the system won't boot.
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jaylach
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Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:06 pm |
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
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sboots wrote: Acadia wrote: sboots wrote: ...I like that you are pushing Libre Office and hope that you succeed... Hey, Steve, do you use Libre Office or Microsoft Office? Curious because another person that I have a lot of respect for, computer knowledge wise, will only use Libre. Thanks, Bill I am a Microsoft Office user. I have a subscription for Office365, now Microsoft 365. -steve I also use Microsoft 365 but have often had Libre Office installed and it is VERY good except for lacking an email client. Of course the email client can be solved with eM Client for free as long as there are no more than two email accounts.
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Doddie
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Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:29 pm |
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jaylach wrote: Thanks Doddie. Dell's diagnostics was run but Sea Tools is more comprehensive. Does it allow creating a boot disk? I have it installed and don't see an option for that. This would be needed as the system won't boot. Perhaps you have an outdated version, or you don't have the bootable version installed? Seagate have several tools available that depend on circumstances. That said, yes there does appear to be a boot disk option, it's called "SeaTools Bootable". Sadly there doesn't appear to be an online readme on the Samsung website for the Bootable version but if you download the SeaTools Bootable file from the website link i posted before you'll find a readme within the downloaded zip file. Because the download is circa 163MB i'll copy and paste what i think is the most relevant information in the readme file... the rest appears to be licencing information of little use in this curcumstance (see quote below). Likely of more use for using the Bootable version will be the following page: https://www.seagate.com/gb/en/manuals/software/seatools-bootable/using-seatools/Quote: ReadMeFirst.SeaToolsBootable.txt Revision: 12-Mar-2018
===============================================================================
Seagate SeaTools Bootable
Copyright (c) 2014-2018 Seagate Technology LLC and/or its Affiliates, All Rights Reserved
===============================================================================
Please READ ME FIRST
Thank you for downloading SeaTools Bootable, build v2.1.2-1_17_5
This is a limited Engineering Preview Release, just prior to being made
available to the general public.
SeaTools Bootable provides a basic suite of diagnostic utilities in an
environment independent of your installed operating system. This will allow you
to test, diagnose, and possibly repair your hard drive, even if your operating
system environment is inaccessible.
SeaTools Bootable tests SATA, SAS and USB interface drives. All of the Basic
Tests are data safe. The Advanced Features menu has Erase options which are
not data safe.
KNOWN LIMITATION: The Seagate USB boot maker tool needs a USB flash drive of
size 256MiB or larger but less than 32GiB. The USB flash drive must be
formatted to FAT32 (in this size range they usually are).
KNOWN LIMITATION: Some notebook touchpad mouse systems may not be recognized.
We hope to have the missing device drivers added in the public release.
Until then, the work around for this situation is to attach a common USB
mouse into the notebook in order to run the application.
KNOWN LIMITATION: The Advanced Features menu requires the F8 function key to
confirm access to the menu. Some systems keyboards may not process the
F8 key press in a way that works with the operating system and or
SeaTools Bootable. The F8 key press might be ignored or cause the
application to quit.
NOTE FOR Mac USERS: Booting from the USB flash drive may take some
experimentation. To boot a USB flash drive, power on or restart the
system, wait until the screen turns white and then press and hold the
"Option" key. A boot device menu should display. Insert the SeaTools
USB flash drive. A new gold color USB boot device icon "EFI Boot" should
appear. This is your selection.
How to verify the download file integrity
=========================================
As download file sizes get larger, there is a small possibility of data
corruption in the final file on your system. You can compute a MD5 value for
your download and compare it to the value we publish in the
SeaToolsBootable_RC_2.1.2.usbBootMaker.exe.md5.txt file. If even one bit is
different in the download then the MD5 calculation will look entirely different
and you will know that the file is corrupted and cannot be used.
In Windows, to compute the MD5 hash value for a file do the following:
1. From Windows Explorer, Shift+RightClick the folder name where the download
exists and select "Open command window here".
2. Type the following command at a command line:
CertUtil -hashfile "SeaToolsBootable_RC_2.1.2.usbBootMaker.exe" MD5
(Hint: when you start to type the long SeaTools file name, type a few letters
then press the TAB key for rapid file name completion.)
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jaylach
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Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:52 pm |
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
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Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
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Thanks again Doddie. @BB: One more thought... Hey, you know me. I have to throw out any and all thoughts. I know that you said that you don't want to mess with the system too much anymore but I had a thought. You said that the apparently bad drive does not show as a boot order option in the BIOS but have you looked for a hard drive priority option in the BIOS? This is an option to dictate which installed drive will show in the boot order. Not all BIOS systems have this option but if the BIOS is the old style, not UEFI, it likely does. I would look for this option and see if the drive is listed but just not selected. Again this is unlikely but possible. As a just in case it would be less 'messing' than the clean install as would Doddie's bootable Sea Tools.
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Doddie
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Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:00 pm |
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Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:13 pm
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Location: Dunedin, Alba.
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jaylach wrote: I also use Microsoft 365 but have often had Libre Office installed and it is VERY good except for lacking an email client. Of course the email client can be solved with eM Client for free as long as there are no more than two email accounts. Thunderbird as an email client is free without account restrictions and is an outstanding alternative if you like and want the feel of the now defunct Outlook Express. Libre Office, it's an excellent alternative to MS Office if you don't use MS Office on a daily basis (i find docs written in older MS Ofice versions all to often have formatting issues that Libre doesn't cope well with), i also find the updates a bit of a headache to keep on top of, but that's a small price to pay given that it's free and as an ocassional user of office documents i can live with them. I'm moving off-topic so that will be my last comment on that 
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bbarry
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Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:02 pm |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
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Location: North Central Arkansas
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Wow, lot's of good input while I was gone this afternoon. @Doddie - Thanks for all the good info. As Jay mentioned, I did run the Dell diagnostic (twice) which told me (twice) that the hard drive had failed. I did not know it was a Samsung drive until I had removed it from the case, so I did not run any Samsung diagnostic. Nor did I ever run the Seagate diagnostic. But at this point I am focused on installing and populating a new Samsung drive. However, I also ordered an external HDD docking station (at Jay's suggestion), so I may play around with the failed drive after it arrives. Again, thanks for your input. @Jay - Yea, I know you have to throw out "any and all thoughts",  . This is usually great, but this latest one regarding BIOS and the old drive comes way after the dust has settled. I do remember that the HDD was shown as a device in the BIOS but I was never allowed to place it in the boot order. As I mentioned above, I did order a docking station so maybe at least I will be able to salvage some of the onboard data. Docking station arrives Friday and the new drive arrives late next week.
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bbarry
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Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:06 am |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
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OK, my Sabrent drive dock arrived, so I inserted the failed hard drive and tried three different programs, as follows: - EaseUS Partition Master did not even recognize the drive - Seagate for Windows, where I tried both MBR and GBT. In both cases I received the error “The request failed due to a failed device hardware error" - Speccy saw it as a Sabrent SCSI Disk Drive of 0B capacity; 0 Bytes resize (whatever that means) I then went to Doddie’s link and downloaded Seagate Bootable and even created a bootable USB flash drive. But obviously I don’t know how to use this bootable flash drive. Should I: - reinsert the failed hard drive into the computer from whence it came - then change the boot sequence of this computer to include the USB port/drive - then try to boot this computer using this Seagate bootable drive in hopes of being able to access the failed drive? At this point, I still haven’t tried two other things that Jay mentioned; namely, - Linux Mint Live Media - GParted Because both of these appear to be rather complicated. Also at this point, I’m beginning to really believe that the drive has indeed failed and that I am spending considerable time chasing a ‘pig in a poke’. 
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jaylach
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Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:52 pm |
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Sounds to me like the drive can be considered wasted.
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bbarry
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Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:37 pm |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
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@ Jay - I agree with wasted, but I'm still curious as to how to use the SeaTools bootable flash drive that I just created.
@Doddie - Since you were wise to point me toward the Seagate SeaTools Bootable utility, have you ever created/used such a bootable flash drive? If so, how should I go about it in this case? My thinking was:
- reinsert the failed hard drive into the computer from whence it came
- then change the boot sequence of this computer to include the USB port/drive
- then try to boot this computer using this Seagate bootable drive in hopes of being able to access the failed drive
Does that sound logical?
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jaylach
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Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:46 pm |
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
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What you asked Doddie is correct although, if you booted to Sea Tools on your current system, I believe it would still allow you to access 'failed' drive as an external.
If you put the 'failed' drive back on the original system don't bother mounting, just attach the cables. You don't really have to change the boot order. There should be an F-key to bring up a boot menu. Often this is F-9 but on mine it is F-11. Look on the post screen and it should say if such is available.
The bootable Sea Tools will not work on all systems. On mine it fails while loading extensions. Since your friend's system is probably a pretty basic setup it will probably work.
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bbarry
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Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:06 pm |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
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Location: North Central Arkansas
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jaylach wrote: What you asked Doddie is correct although, if you booted to Sea Tools on your current system, I believe it would still allow you to access 'failed' drive as an external.
I could never get my system to recognize the flash drive as a bootable option. It may be because I was using a USB port on top of my tower (it's difficult for me to get to the back of my tower). It seems I read some place where you couldn't boot from just any USB port.
If you put the 'failed' drive back on the original system don't bother mounting, just attach the cables. You don't really have to change the boot order. There should be an F-key to bring up a boot menu. Often this is F-9 but on mine it is F-11. Look on the post screen and it should say if such is available.
Good advice. On her system it is the F12 key. And I hadn't planned on remounting the hard drive....merely connecting the power & SATA cables.
The bootable Sea Tools will not work on all systems. On mine it fails while loading extensions. Since your friend's system is probably a pretty basic setup it will probably work.
It's an easy thing to try at this point. If it doesn't work, then I will give up and wait arrival of her new drive from Amazon.
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Doddie
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Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:17 pm |
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Hi Barry, Yes i have used the SeaTools Bootable option but it was some years ago, i don't imagine the process has changed much in that time though. You can find out more about the Bootable version and how to use it here: https://www.seagate.com/gb/en/manuals/software/seatools-bootable/introduction/The menu item on the left labelled "Using SeaTools" in the link above explains how to boot from a USB Flash Drive. On that occassion i was trying to recover data for a friend from what was a suspected failing HDD. To be sure there wasn't another factor in play, like a faulty motherboard, i wanted to use my PC to run the diagnostics. Before i plugged her HDD drive into my PC i unplugged ALL of the power and data connectors from my HDD's and CD/DVD drives. (It makes it so much easier to find the drive you want to diagnose if there's only one to choose from, plus it eliminated the possibility of accidental loss of my data.)I changed the boot order in the BIOS to boot from USB, it loaded and i ran the diagnostics. I'm curious about one thing though, you said that you'd run Seagate for Windows: Quote: Seagate for Windows, where I tried both MBR and GBT. In both cases I received the error “The request failed due to a failed device hardware error" If you meant SeaTools for Windows then you already have the answer, running SeaTools Bootable will almost certainly return the same error message. If that's the case then the drive is dead. Hope that helps. <Edited by myself to correct a typo>
Last edited by Doddie on Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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bbarry
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Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:27 pm |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
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Location: North Central Arkansas
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Doddie, yes it was actually Seagate's SeaTools for Windows that I ran. So based on what you are saying, I already have my answer......dead drive. My friend has most of her data backed up, so it's not a big loss if I can't recover anything on this drive. Her new drive should arrive from Amazon next week, so I will have a go at installing Windows 10 version 2004 on the new drive. I will also install the programs and the data files that she wants. Fingers crossed that all that goes well.
Thanks for your input........
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Doddie
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Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:35 pm |
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Yup, continuing to try and wake up the pig in poke can now be considered the same as flogging a dead horse
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bbarry
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Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:30 pm |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
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I give up on the failed hard drive. I reconnected the drive and booted from the USB flash drive that I had created using SeaTools Bootable. It didn't work.....I got the message "failed to load ldlinex.c32". Research showed this to be a somewhat common problem, and I'm not going down that road. Still awaiting the new drive, which I think Amazon is shipping on a slow boat from China.
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jaylach
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Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:58 pm |
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
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bbarry wrote: Still awaiting the new drive, which I think Amazon is shipping on a slow boat from China. I've found that you have to look at it from where it is shipped. If an item is shipped from the U.S. you, on average, expect 5-7 days free shipping. An item shipped from China is more likely to be delivered in 10-17 days. The number of days for shipping I posted are just approximates, not absolute numbers.
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bbarry
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:03 am |
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I said that 'tongue in cheek'. I don't know where it is being shipped from, but I do suspect China. However, it is being sent USPS.
I ordered the drive dock at the same time. However, it was a prime item and arrived in 4 days.
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jaylach
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:23 pm |
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
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Hey BB, what size drive did you order for the friend's system? The reason that I ask is that, if large enough, you might consider partitioning to have separate system and data partitions.
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