sorry, this, rather, late, thought, had, posted, about, but, did, not, have, you, noticed, slow, down, your, system, since, the, september, updates, for, windows, ver, some, ways, nothing, critical, biggest, two, issues, ive, seen, involve, longer, period, time, before, fully, loaded, after, reaching, desktop, instance, email, client, takes, long, finally, load, also, setup, run, pretty, much, entirely, from, taskbar, folders, pinned, file, explorer, icon, that, contain, apps, utilities, games, and, other, groups, update, shortcuts, often, take, several, seconds, populate, where, was, next, instantaneous, previous, reported, cortana, culprit, causing, cpu, usage, spikes, affected, systems, tend, those, which, modified, function, one, symptom, dont, see, start, menu, search, will, work, still, works, known, issue, fix, supposedly, here, are, couple, articles, https, www, ghacks, net, cpu-spike-bug-in-latest-windows-, -update-reported-to-microsoft, tomshardware, com, news, windows-, -update-causes-high-cpu-usage, html,     sorry this is rather late i thought i had posted about it but did not have you noticed a slow down on your system since the september updates for windows ver i have in some ways but nothing critical the biggest two issues i've seen involve a longer period of

Register    Login    Search    FAQ     Articles & downloads     Donate

Board index » Technical Forums » Windows 8/8.1/10




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:01 pm 
Offline
Resident Geekazoid Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 6801
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
Sorry this is rather late. I thought I had posted about it but did not.

Have you noticed a slow down on your system since the September 2019 updates for Windows ver. 1903? I have in some ways but nothing critical. The biggest two issues I've seen involve a longer period of time before Windows is fully loaded after reaching the desktop. For instance my email client takes a LONG time to finally load. Also I have my system setup to run pretty much entirely from my Taskbar. I have folders pinned to the File Explorer icon on the Taskbar that contain apps, utilities, games and other groups. Since the KB4512941 update I have seen that the shortcuts often take several seconds to populate where it was next to instantaneous previous to the KB4512941 update.

It is reported that Cortana is the culprit causing CPU usage spikes after the KB4512941 update. It is also reported that the affected systems tend to be those which have had Cortana modified as to function. One symptom that I don't see is that the Start Menu search will not work. The search still works on my system.

This is a known issue and a fix is supposedly in the works. Here are a couple of articles on the issue.
https://www.ghacks.net/2019/09/02/cpu-spike-bug-in-latest-windows-10-1903-update-reported-to-microsoft/

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-10-update-causes-high-cpu-usage,40290.html

_________________
Image
Jaylach's Free Sites
I NEVER forget... I just remember late.

ImageImage


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:11 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:48 pm
Posts: 1922
Location: New Jersey
My start menu search still works fine, but my system has definitely been impacted negatively by the 1903 update. I have monitored CPU in Task Manager and can't see anything hogging CPU when there's a clear slowdown. Symptoms include -- typing stops on screen for a moment or two before catching up, scrolling in a browser window stops, clicks are unresponsive for a moment or two. In between the fairly frequent slowdowns, performance is fine. I don't see video or audio hiccups, just delays affecting input.
The other issue I have since 1903 is that the PC will not go to sleep on it's own 99% of the time. I put it to sleep manually and it stays asleep. I haven't been able to nail down what is keeping it awake.
I suspect that both issues are related and await a fix, assuming it is related to the Cortana bug.
Note that while composing this reply I experienced the typing delay 3 or 4 times.
-steve

_________________
stephen boots
Microsoft MVP since 2004
"Life's always an adventure with computers!"


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:43 pm 
Offline
Resident Geekazoid Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 6801
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
I have also not seen any video or audio issues but have noticed some scrolling, typing and mouse click issues. The only issues that really irritate me are the slow population of shortcuts in my pinned folders and the, at times, typing lag.

Are your issues like mine as in being more prevalent when starting the system? Once the drive stops churning after a start all seems fine except for the folder population.

Oh, I have also seen that my system images are taking forever. My clone system backup sees no difference but that is actually done after a restart and before Windows is loaded.

I really don't get the lag on folder population and such as benchmarks on my M.2 drives come up normal. This would tend to indicate that it isn't anything to do with drive access but directly related to the core system.

I can't say that I've really monitored the CPU usage but have looked. The thing is that I've looked after the system has fully loaded. Since I have dual monitors mayhaps I'll open the CPU performance monitor on one screen and then open a pinned folder on the other to see if I see a CPU spike while the shortcuts populate.

Something that bothers me is that Microsoft does not seem to think that enough systems are impacted to consider this to be a priority fix. That just isn't right. I mean some systems are seeing that the Start Menu search no longer works. That would seem to be a major issue...

_________________
Image
Jaylach's Free Sites
I NEVER forget... I just remember late.

ImageImage


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:54 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:48 pm
Posts: 1922
Location: New Jersey
My issue with the intermittent delays continue the entire time I'm at the PC -- it isn't limited to wake from sleep. And it isn't limited to any particular program or app.

_________________
stephen boots
Microsoft MVP since 2004
"Life's always an adventure with computers!"


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:43 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:25 pm
Posts: 1538
Location: Pembrokeshire, South Wales, UK
I've noticed a few issues but I can't remember exactly which update it started with. There are times when my Wi-Fi adapter doesn't connect when first starting my laptop, if I'm quick enough when first starting and see it appear on my taskbar I can click to get it to connect to my network or my Bing Wallpaper of the day won't change.

Also when opening Edge it will perhaps do a refresh a couple of times before being fully loaded and usable.

They are an irritation but I can live with it till probably another update will put matters right. I don't intend to try messing about with the system to see if I can find something out, they aren't critical. ;-)

_________________
Joan Archer
http://crossstitcher.webs.com
Image


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:32 pm 
Offline
Resident Geekazoid Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 6801
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
Hmmm, Just for grins I looked at my installed updates planning to remove KB4512941 to see what would happen and it wasn't listed, possibly due to being accumulative. Just to be sure I downloaded and attempted to do a manual install but it said it did not apply to my system. I assume this was due to already being applied.

@ Joan: Yes, I've seen where I have to refresh Edge to get a page to fully load. I don't recall seeing this with Firefox. I only use Edge for the streaming of my baseball and football games. In fact I have Edge set with two tabs as a home page directly to the streaming sites for both sports. For normal browsing I use Firefox.

_________________
Image
Jaylach's Free Sites
I NEVER forget... I just remember late.

ImageImage


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:06 am 
Offline
Resident Geekazoid Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 6801
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
BTW, the actual culprit seems to be KB4515384.

<edit>
Well KB4515384 looked likely but I'm still getting the slow shortcut population issue after the removal of the update. Still may be the root issue but the delay is still there. I will say that the shortcut population is not nearly as long as it was.

It looks like there were a total of four updates included in the September "first Tuesday" updates. Two are not removable. I haven't tried the second that I can remove yet. Actually there was a fifth update but that was just an Adobe Flash update and I doubt that it would be a factor... but you never know.

_________________
Image
Jaylach's Free Sites
I NEVER forget... I just remember late.

ImageImage


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:13 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:25 pm
Posts: 1538
Location: Pembrokeshire, South Wales, UK
Well I had no problems this morning when turning on, the connection was made straight away so I was online from startup. Got a couple of cute Sea Otters in the Alaskan Inside Passage as my Bing Wallpaper of the day. :-)

_________________
Joan Archer
http://crossstitcher.webs.com
Image


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:59 pm 
Offline
Resident Geekazoid Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 6801
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
This is actually sort of interesting. I'm still having irritating issues but they have changed... some issues have left.

1) Total system load time was terrible. It would be over 90 seconds before my email client (eM Client) would open after reaching the desktop. It now is open within 2-3 seconds after reaching the desktop. Part of this is that I moved my email store back to my system drive from my data drive. System drive is MUCH faster but not that much.

2) Edge is no longer functional. I don't mean that it does not work, it acts as if it isn't there at all.

3) Right click is no longer functional for taskbar icons. Right click on the taskbar works, just not on pinned items.

4) Action Center is not functional.

What I did:

1) Removed both updates I was able to do from the September Updates. Didn't really help so I re-installed. This is when I lost Edge and taskbar icon right clicks along with the Action Center.

Just on a hunch I went to my UEFI BIOS and changed my memory settings from my old manual setting to auto. This is when my boot time went back to normal with my email client going back to loading right away. I also reset my UEFI BIOS. Love my mother board; has a button on the back to do the reset.

What I'll do:

1) Not right now as I'm streaming a baseball game but I'll restore my clone copy of my system drive so it will be back to before I started playing.

2) Check my UEFI BIOS to make sure things are as I now have them and boot. I will be where I was before I started playing but with the UEFI BIOS changes intact.

Since just changing my memory from a manual setting in my UEFI BIOS to auto drastically changed my after desktop load time I have to suspect that there has been a change in memory management in one of these updates which MAY be causing some of the issues.

<edit>
Important addition!
Just for grins I decided to do a test on my hard drives using Seagate's Sea Tools as it will do all six of my drives. Did a basic check on all drives and five of the 6 were all done in less than a minute, possibly around thirty seconds but I wasn't timing. Ten to fifteen minutes later my data/system image drive is still testing and has a ways to go. I have to suspect that my issues are compound. Yes, the September updates have caused some issues but I have to now believe that I also have a failing drive. This would account for the extreme time it takes if I use this drive for my email store instead of my system drive as to how long it takes my email client to open. It would also explain the long delay as to populating my pinned folder shortcuts as these are also on the data drive. Since the drive is partitioned for data and system images it would also explain why it takes forever to restore an image.

_________________
Image
Jaylach's Free Sites
I NEVER forget... I just remember late.

ImageImage


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:49 pm 
Offline
Resident Geekazoid Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 6801
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
After going through a lot of testing and stuff it would seem that most of the issues I saw were due to a failing drive; a replacement has been ordered. What made me start to look at a possible drive failure was the fact that some of the issues I saw did not match reported issues at all.

Still, some of what I saw was caused by the September 2019 update package. Why do my associated issues go away when Steve's stay I can't answer for fact. Since the issues seem to relate to peaks in CPU usage mayhaps it is due to a difference in CPUs between us. Since I don't know what CPU Steve uses I can't really compare but mayhaps my AMD Ryzen 7 1800X 8 core/16 thread CPU is just hard to peak as to usage. 16 threads??? OK, that means that each of the 8 physical CPU cores can do two things basically at the same time. In fact Windows sees the CPU as 16 cores. It is just hard to max out. Is it the difference? I don't really know but it is a possibility.

BTW, after doing a mirror back from my slower M.2 SSD to my booting system faster M.2 SSD Edge and my right clicks on my taskbar are back and all is fine.

_________________
Image
Jaylach's Free Sites
I NEVER forget... I just remember late.

ImageImage


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:29 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:48 pm
Posts: 1922
Location: New Jersey
Mine's a Core i7-6700K
The performance glitches continue -- I can live with them and expect that a future update will correct the issue. ;-)

_________________
stephen boots
Microsoft MVP since 2004
"Life's always an adventure with computers!"


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:51 pm 
Offline
Resident Geekazoid Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 6801
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
sboots wrote:
Mine's a Core i7-6700K
The performance glitches continue -- I can live with them and expect that a future update will correct the issue. ;-)

I can live with the little glitches also Steve. In about a month the fall 2019 feature upgrade should be out. Mayhaps it will fix the glitches.

I still think that it may be a CPU difference as to why the glitches persist on your system and not mine. Your I7 is a pretty sweet chip but my AMD CPU is closer in relationship to an I9. With mine effectively having 16 cores it could easily be the difference.

Off topic but...
Since I mentioned the fall 2019 feature upgrade above I wonder why Microsoft supposedly decided to remove the ability of Edge to display eBooks. Doesn't really make any sort of logical sense to me. Doesn't affect me as I have a 10.1 inch Android tablet on which I use a NOOK app to do my reading but removing functionality from Edge just doesn't make sense to me. :dunno:

_________________
Image
Jaylach's Free Sites
I NEVER forget... I just remember late.

ImageImage


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:49 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:48 pm
Posts: 1922
Location: New Jersey
Well, it remains to be seen if it sticks, but I just updated (the desktop experiencing the issues) to the September 2019 cumulative update. After rebooting and using the PC for the last hour the performance blips appear to have stopped. If I'm really lucky, the PC may even decide to go to sleep on its own again. :-)
Fingers crossed.
No idea what prompted the decision to remove that functionality from Edge. I never used it and suspect not many people did, so perhaps it was removed due to lack of use and to simplify the Edge code a tiny bit.

_________________
stephen boots
Microsoft MVP since 2004
"Life's always an adventure with computers!"


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:08 am 
Offline
Resident Geekazoid Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 6801
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
I thought that you had already done the September 2019 updates. One of the batch is supposed to cure the CPU spiking but does not seem to be effective on all systems. I hope that yours is one on which it solves the issue. To be honest, after doing all my experiments and restoring, I needed to apply the 9/2019 updates again. Since then I have seen no issue except those caused by my apparently failing HDD.

_________________
Image
Jaylach's Free Sites
I NEVER forget... I just remember late.

ImageImage


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:41 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:48 pm
Posts: 1922
Location: New Jersey
I generally don't go to WU on this machine, letting it take the updates when offered. I wasn't sure if the September update had been installed, but decided to go look yesterday evening. I guess I should have done so earlier. :-P
I manually put the PC to sleep last night, so I can't say if that issue is also resolved or not. I had to sleep problem once before, too, and after many weeks of manually putting it to sleep, it started working properly again one day -- I can't say if there was an update to resolve that or not back then...

_________________
stephen boots
Microsoft MVP since 2004
"Life's always an adventure with computers!"


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:59 pm 
Offline
Resident Geekazoid Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 6801
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
I don't actively go to Windows Update either very often to look for updates. I have Updates set to just notify and the Notifications by the clock let's me know when updates are available. When they are I go to Updates and apply when I want to do so.

What I don't get about the 9/2019 updates and the issues is that I had already applied the updates and had the issues. Mayhaps corrections were made between my two installs as I had to install again after restoring my clone to the system drive.

I don't use sleep mode at all; not even on my laptop. Nothing I really have against it but it just does not fit for me. My two desktops are on 24/7 and do their image backups and security scans in the wee hours of the morning so sleep mode just isn't really practical for me. I rarely use the laptop so sleep mode isn't needed as it is either on or off.

_________________
Image
Jaylach's Free Sites
I NEVER forget... I just remember late.

ImageImage


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:57 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:25 pm
Posts: 1538
Location: Pembrokeshire, South Wales, UK
I don't use sleep, my desktop lately is only being turned on when I need to use it, before it was turned on all day and I might not actually use it.

I'm on this laptop throughout the day so leave it turned on, it's not on 24/7 but powered up each morning and then turned off at night.

I have WU set to do it's own thing so it gets the updates when the machine is ready for them and I don't get many problems that way. I will occasionally go there to see what got installed especially after patch Tuesday if there are updates waiting for the restart I usually do that rather than let it wait for the quiet time, there aren't many of those. :-)

_________________
Joan Archer
http://crossstitcher.webs.com
Image


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:49 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:48 pm
Posts: 1922
Location: New Jersey
I typically leave the desktop PC on 24x7, but expect it to sleep after I'm away for 30 minutes. It stopped going to sleep when I upgraded to 1903. The monitors do occasionally darken, but often they stay lit as well -- suggesting that there's a process that tells the PC it is in use.

_________________
stephen boots
Microsoft MVP since 2004
"Life's always an adventure with computers!"


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:34 pm 
Offline
Resident Geekazoid Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 6801
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
Either something is telling the system it is in use or, possibly, you have a scheduled task that the system must be kept active to do. I guess that is probably the same thing as you said about a process...

As far as the monitors sometimes darkening is there any chance that you have Night Light enabled. Night Light will change the monitor brightness during specified hours. Settings -> System -> Display -> Night light settings. Actually I think that it just lowers the blue intensity but that, basically, boils down to the same thing.

_________________
Image
Jaylach's Free Sites
I NEVER forget... I just remember late.

ImageImage


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:18 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:48 pm
Posts: 1922
Location: New Jersey
By darken, I mean that the monitors go to power save mode when the signal turns off. Often the video signal continues long after the monitors should have gone to sleep due to inactivity. Of course, that simply supports the idea that there is a process that keeps the system active. One day it will be straightened out. :-)

_________________
stephen boots
Microsoft MVP since 2004
"Life's always an adventure with computers!"


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:33 pm 
Offline
Resident Geekazoid Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 6801
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
Hmmm, you don't seem all that concerned but it has my curiosity turned on. ;) You obviously know a LOT more about networking than I but don't you have a network setup that includes scheduled backups to your network drives? If I'm remembering right I'd suspect that your network might be the culprit.

_________________
Image
Jaylach's Free Sites
I NEVER forget... I just remember late.

ImageImage


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:45 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:48 pm
Posts: 1922
Location: New Jersey
Nope. I manually sync using GoodSync. I have a slight suspicion that the culprit may be Carbonite, which runs all the time looking for changes to upload. If I'm right, a future update to Carbonite would fix the issue. For now, I just put the PC to sleep manually at night or if I'll be away for an extended period.
I should add that the performance blips, where the system acts like something is hogging CPU briefly, still happens, but not as often or as long as before.
-steve

_________________
stephen boots
Microsoft MVP since 2004
"Life's always an adventure with computers!"


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:25 pm 
Offline
Resident Geekazoid Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 6801
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
Since I restored my system and reapplied the September updates I haven't seen any performance issues or, if they are there, I haven't noticed. Just to throw out a possibility have you checked for any device driver updates?

I've never looked into Carbonite. What do you think of it and how do you use? Since I do image and clone backups of my systems and sync my data and media between two systems do you think it something I might still find of interest?

_________________
Image
Jaylach's Free Sites
I NEVER forget... I just remember late.

ImageImage


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:31 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:48 pm
Posts: 1922
Location: New Jersey
I haven't spent much time looking for device driver updates. I did check for a few, but nothing showed up. Not too concerned as the blips are less frequent...

Carbonite is basically off site redundant backup for my files. It simply runs with Windows and watches for changes in the locations I specify. Any found are then transmitted to the cloud. When first installed, I believe it goes after the basics in your User folder -- Document, Pictures. Music.. (maybe some others). I have configured it to also watch other folders on this system. There is 427 Gigs of data in the Cloud according to the app. I have the ability to restore any file or folder of files, if needed. It does not store multiple versions of files, though, and only keeps the latest version. It is fairly pricey, so if you are comfortable with your current backup plan, stick with that. Off site does offer an extra level of safety, but you can accomplish that my storing a backup on a portable drive that you leave with a friend or relative. ;-)

_________________
stephen boots
Microsoft MVP since 2004
"Life's always an adventure with computers!"


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:47 pm 
Offline
Resident Geekazoid Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 6801
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
OK, thanks Steve. :)

_________________
Image
Jaylach's Free Sites
I NEVER forget... I just remember late.

ImageImage


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ] 

Board index » Technical Forums » Windows 8/8.1/10


Who is online

Registered users: No registered users

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:

Similar topics


Jump to:  

cron