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bbarry
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 Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:46 pm |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 2406
Location: North Central Arkansas
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I have a friend in Texas with whom I have been communicating for years via email. A couple of years ago she purchased a Times Warner communication package, so twc.com became her email address. No problem sending or receiving emails.
Then recently TWC and Charter Communication merged into a company called Spectrum. Since that time, most of my emails to my friend have been returned as undeliverable. When she inquired as to the reason, she was told that it was a security measure to reduce spam.
She was further told that if I wanted my emails to be delivered to her, I would have to go to feedback.postmaster.rr.com and fill out a 'feedback loop request' form. This form required my full name, telephone number, and email address(es). I refused to do so, and now I can no longer email her from the same email addresses I have used for years.
Has anyone every heard of this feedback loop request form? And can anyone shed light on why my two email addresses are suddenly being blackballed by Spectrum? Thanks in advance.
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sboots
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:33 pm |
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Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:48 pm
Posts: 2954
Location: New Jersey
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What domain is your email originating from?
_________________ stephen boots Microsoft MVP 2004 - 2020 "Life's always an adventure with computers!"
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bbarry
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:26 pm |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 2406
Location: North Central Arkansas
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sboots wrote: What domain is your email originating from? Steve, one domain is artelco.com and the other is barrypatch.net.
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Peter2150
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:58 am |
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Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:52 pm
Posts: 970
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Hi Barry Always remember Google is your friend. As a result of searching. https://blog.returnpath.com/what-is-a-feedback-loop/from the other stuff I've read, if you want to get around it you may have to provide the info they want. Remember they are asking for proof you aren't a spammer, so if you refuse to identify yourself, in their eyes you are.
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sboots
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:11 am |
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Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:48 pm
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Location: New Jersey
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Hello, Barry.
Yes, what Peter says is correct. It's basically a spam prevention policy. The first domain does surprise me as it is an ISP, but the second appears to be your own, so providing proof that you are legitimate is reasonable -- it really sucks that spammers and malware purveyors are so ubiquitous that we are forced to this.
-steve
_________________ stephen boots Microsoft MVP 2004 - 2020 "Life's always an adventure with computers!"
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bbarry
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:18 am |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 2406
Location: North Central Arkansas
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Peter2150 wrote: Hi Barry Always remember Google is your friend. As a result of searching. https://blog.returnpath.com/what-is-a-feedback-loop/from the other stuff I've read, if you want to get around it you may have to provide the info they want. Remember they are asking for proof you aren't a spammer, so if you refuse to identify yourself, in their eyes you are. Pete, I truly appreciate this information, as it at least explained what is going on. Thank you. But honestly, I don't appreciate your distainful comment about Google being my friend. I do know how to Google and I use it often. In fact, I Googled 'feedback loop request' last night before I submitted my post. But as you know, when you Google on a phrase, you get 5 million hits in 0.5 sec......I just never saw the hit that you got.
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bbarry
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:32 am |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 2406
Location: North Central Arkansas
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@ Steve & Pete - Thanks to you both for helping me understand what's going on here, as I would like to continue communicating with my friend. So as Spectrum requested, I went to their feedback form website: http://feedback.postmaster.rr.com/Unfortunately, I don't know how to fill out all the requested information, so I was hoping you could help me here. They first want my name, country, company, phone, and email address, which I know how to provide. But then they want 'Feedback Loop Email' and 'CIDRs/IPs', and I have no idea what these are. Any help/advice on how to fill out this form would be appreciated.
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Acadia
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 1:02 pm |
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Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:45 am
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bbarry wrote: ... But honestly, I don't appreciate your disdainful comment about Google being my friend... Whoa, bbarry, I sincerely believe from the bottom of my heart that Peter was not trying to be disdainful. I believe that I have heard Peter, or was it someone else, use that very same phrase about Google. I am sure that he realizes that you, and EVERYONE here at the Haven knows how to use Google search. (Now what puzzles me is why so many folks use Google Search when they hate the Gmail.  ) Whenever I search using Google I always use the Advance Search that has better filters, perhaps that is how Peter found his link?? Long story made short, I am sure that Peter was just trying to help.  Acadia
_________________
The blazing evidence of immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution. -- Emerson
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Peter2150
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:53 pm |
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Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:52 pm
Posts: 970
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Hi Barry
Apologies, but on some the other forums, people ask without looking first. No special filters. I just look at the first few links and see what seems helpful. Good luck.
Pete
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bbarry
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:05 pm |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 2406
Location: North Central Arkansas
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Peter2150 wrote: Hi Barry
Apologies, but on some the other forums, people ask without looking first. No special filters. I just look at the first few links and see what seems helpful. Good luck.
Pete Apologies from me also, Pete. I just read your post as telling me that if I had first done a Google search, then I wouldn't have to bother the members of Computer Haven. But at this point I still need more than luck. I truly need some help in filling out the feedback loop form. As posted above, I don't know what they mean regarding "Feedback Loop Email" and "CIDRs/IPs".  So can you, or Steve, or anyone help me with this, as my friend and I really want to continue communicating via email? Thanks in advance.
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sboots
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:29 pm |
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Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:48 pm
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Location: New Jersey
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Found this definition for the Feedback Loop Email: A feedback loop (FBL), sometimes called a complaint feedback loop, is an inter-organizational form of feedback by which a Mailbox Provider (MP) forwards the complaints originating from their users to the sender's organizations. So, that means what address should your friend's mail provider forward complaints to if your email turns out to be spam... Maybe Postmaster@___.com or Spam@____.com For your ISP, they can provide that address to you. For what I think is your personal domain, whoever is hosting your email for that domain would provide it. If you are hosting your own server, you can create an address for complaints/feedback and provide that address. CIDRs/IP is tougher. CIDR means - Classless Inter-Domain Routing. I am not sure what you would need to provide here. This utility - http://ipaddressguide.com/cidr appears to offer the ability to convert an IP address to a CIDR. However, it would seem that the form would accept either the IP *or* the CIDR. I presume they mean the IP address range that the server resides within where the email originates from. You may be able to determine the answer for this question by looking at the email headers for your sent email from both domains -- the ISP and the personal domain. -steve _________________ stephen boots Microsoft MVP 2004 - 2020 "Life's always an adventure with computers!"
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bbarry
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:27 pm |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 2406
Location: North Central Arkansas
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@ Steve (and Pete) - Thanks for the info, but sad to say most of the terms, logic and rationale are over my head. My problem was simply that suddenly my emails to my friend were being returned by Spectrum as undeliverable.
And now I am suppose to fill out a form that tells Spectrum where to send complaints to me if my email turns out to be spam? I don't know how to fill out the form and I certainly don't need to receive complaints about my email. All I want is for my emails to once again be successfully delivered to my friend like they were before the days of Spectrum.
The FBL form appears to be for commercial endeavors whose websites or emails are clicked as spam.....that way the company can decide whether to remove that recipient from their database. I just can't see how the form or process applies to two friends trying to communicate via personal emails.
Now, if Spectrum was asking for info/proof that I wasn't a spammer, I would gladly provide this info if I knew how. But I can't see how the FBL form does that, even if I knew how to fill it out.
So I remain stuck in the mud, lol. What am I missing?
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jaylach
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:52 pm |
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 9452
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
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bbarry wrote: @ Steve (and Pete) - Thanks for the info, but sad to say most of the terms, logic and rationale are over my head. Don't feel bad BB as it is a bit over my head too. This is probably not the answewr you want but I would suggest that your friend create a new email address with MS or the service of choice other than the ISP. I would suggest this even if there were no issue as I never think it a good idea to use an ISP for email service. My thinking is what happens if you change ISP? Your email address is now useless. If you use a service such as provided by MS, Google, etc. and change ISP your email is not affected. That said...By any chance do you have cable or any service through Spectrum? Even if not you may try calling them and explaining the issue. From my experience Spectrum tech support is not difficult to deal with. Even if the call didn't work it would be my first step. Now, are you trying to send via artelco.com or barrypatch.net? If artelco.com I would also call them. If you are using barrypatch.net I would contact your hosting to see what they advise. At times it is not a specific address that is blocked but the entire domain which, if the case, should dump the issue in their laps. Also have you tried sending from both accounts? If not try the other as it may be a simple quick fix.
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jaylach
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:08 pm |
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 9452
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
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I also want to give cudos to BB, Peter and Acadia for turning what could have been a problem into a null issue by just talking to each other. Good job guys! 
It is always a problem with 'digital communication' that things are easily taken out of context as one cannot hear a 'tone of voice'. You GENTLEMEN handled it very well.
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sboots
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:43 pm |
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Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:48 pm
Posts: 2954
Location: New Jersey
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I hear you, BB. I can't imagine why an individual would be expected to fill out a form like that. You are correct in that this is a form that should be handled between providers -- that is, if your domain is blacklisted, your ISP (or email hosting provider) would be the one to deal with the ISP rejecting your mail. So, I concur with Jay that contacting Spectrum may be the way to go.
What's the barrypatch.net domain? Who handles that email for you? Is that domain hosted by Spectrum for you or is it another company hosting the web site and providing the mail handling for your address?
_________________ stephen boots Microsoft MVP 2004 - 2020 "Life's always an adventure with computers!"
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bbarry
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 8:46 am |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 2406
Location: North Central Arkansas
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@Jay and Steve - Thanks for your postings. I am getting ready to leave the house and won't be back until early afternoon, at which time I will attempt to answer all your questions. And thanks for hanging with me on this.
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bbarry
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 2:59 pm |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 2406
Location: North Central Arkansas
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jaylach wrote: bbarry wrote: @ Steve (and Pete) - Thanks for the info, but sad to say most of the terms, logic and rationale are over my head. Don't feel bad BB as it is a bit over my head too. LOL, I didn't think anything was over your head.This is probably not the answer you want but I would suggest that your friend create a new email address with MS or the service of choice other than the ISP. That would certainly be one solution, but she has a total communication package with Spectrum and doesn't want to change anything. Besides, as discussed below, Spectrum has solved the problem with my ISP email address, and I can now send her email from artelco.com.I would suggest this even if there were no issue as I never think it a good idea to use an ISP for email service. My thinking is what happens if you change ISP? Your email address is now useless. If you use a service such as provided by MS, Google, etc. and change ISP your email is not affected. I know you and I have had this discussion before. I have had the same ISP (artelco) and the same email address (artelco.com) since I retired to Arkansas 20 years ago. It is a local mon & pop operation that has been here for 50+ years......they provide my landline phone, my internet, and my email server. So at this point in my life, I really don't want to change.
That said...By any chance do you have cable or any service through Spectrum? No, and they told her they would only deal with customers. Even if not you may try calling them and explaining the issue. From my experience Spectrum tech support is not difficult to deal with. Even if the call didn't work it would be my first step. Now, are you trying to send via artelco.com or barrypatch.net? OK, here's where it gets a little cloudy. When the problem first occurred, whatever I sent from both addresses was returned as undeliverable. But then she contacted Spectrum (many times) and they finally agreed to put my artelco.com address on their acceptable 'white' list. So I can now send her email via artelco.com. But anything sent from my barrypatch.net address is not delivered and won't be (according to Spectrum tech support) until I complete and submit the Feedback Loop Form.If artelco.com I would also call them. If you are using barrypatch.net I would contact your hosting to see what they advise. At times it is not a specific address that is blocked but the entire domain which, if the case, should dump the issue in their laps. Good suggestion, I may try contacting my hosting. But before doing that, I am going to try and send her an email from another address in my barrypatch.net domain (I have three, but usually only use one of them). That should tell me if it is an entire domain issue.Also have you tried sending from both accounts? If not try the other as it may be a simple quick fix.
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bbarry
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 3:25 pm |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 2406
Location: North Central Arkansas
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sboots wrote: I hear you, BB. I can't imagine why an individual would be expected to fill out a form like that. You are correct in that this is a form that should be handled between providers -- that is, if your domain is blacklisted, your ISP (or email hosting provider) would be the one to deal with the ISP rejecting your mail. So, I concur with Jay that contacting Spectrum may be the way to go.
Steve, as discussed above in my response to Jay, I don't subscribe to any Spectrum service, only my friend does. But Spectrum has solved the problem with my artelco.com email address, so I can now send her email this way. However, my barrypatch.net email is still undeliverable and will be until I complete & submit the Feedback Loop form, according to Spectrum tech support.
Since I have three email addresses in the barrypatch.net domain, I am going to send my friend an email from another such address. If that is also undeliverable, then that will tell me that it is a domain problem and I will contact my domain hosting and let them work the problem with Spectrum.
What's the barrypatch.net domain? Who handles that email for you? Is that domain hosted by Spectrum for you or is it another company hosting the web site and providing the mail handling for your address?
Again, I do not subscribe to any Spectrum services. My barrypatch.net domain is hosted by a small company called Ozark Web Hosting. They provide email services and website services (I actually developed a couple of personal websites a few years ago). The barrypatch.net domain name was registered through GoDaddy.
Actually I never heard of Spectrum until my friend told me her Time Warner Cable had merged with Charter Communications and the new name was Spectrum. It was shortly after this merge that our problems started. Her email address is still in the twc.com domain.
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jaylach
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 4:09 pm |
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| Resident Geekazoid Administrator |
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 9452
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
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Glad to hear that at least one email address is working.
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sboots
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 8:58 pm |
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Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:48 pm
Posts: 2954
Location: New Jersey
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I got confused with the domains in my last response. I forgot that Spectrum was the receiving ISP, not one of the two sending domains. Sorry about that! Yes, your domain host will be the ones to fill out the form to get your domain cleared for sending to Spectrum or at least assist you in what information you need to fill it out. -steve _________________ stephen boots Microsoft MVP 2004 - 2020 "Life's always an adventure with computers!"
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bbarry
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 5:16 pm |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 2406
Location: North Central Arkansas
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Here is an update. My problem was not a domain one, as my friend could receive email from one of the barrypatch.net addresses. So as a last resort, I filled out and submitted Spectrum's feedback loop request form, and that seemed to have fixed the problem for the other barrypatch.net address. My friend can now receive email from both my artelco.com and barrypatch.net addresses. So thanks to all who gave me advice/guidance and suffered along with me. 
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sboots
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:13 pm |
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Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:48 pm
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Location: New Jersey
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Excellent news, bbarry.  _________________ stephen boots Microsoft MVP 2004 - 2020 "Life's always an adventure with computers!"
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jaylach
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:20 pm |
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 9452
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
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Glad that you got it.
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bbarry
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Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 9:01 pm |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 2406
Location: North Central Arkansas
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jaylach wrote: This is probably not the answewr you want but I would suggest that your friend create a new email address with MS or the service of choice other than the ISP. I would suggest this even if there were no issue as I never think it a good idea to use an ISP for email service. My thinking is what happens if you change ISP? Your email address is now useless. If you use a service such as provided by MS, Google, etc. and change ISP your email is not affected.
Jay, this problem has reared it's ugly head again......Spectrum is again not delivering my emails from my barrypatch domain to my friend, even though I filled out the Feedback Loop Request form. So as you suggested, I am strongly encouraging my friend to create a new email address with a service like Gmail or Yahoo. But that gives rise to a question(s). If a person uses a service email (e.g., Gmail), does the ISP (e.g., Spectrum) still screen and not deliver some of the emails? Or is the spam screening now the responsibility of Gmail? If the ISP is still in control, I can't see how changing email addresses is going to help my friend. Can you provide some clarification for me? I guess I don't fully understand he interactions between the ISP server and the other email server such as Gmail. Thanks......
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sboots
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Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 9:25 pm |
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Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:48 pm
Posts: 2954
Location: New Jersey
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The ISP can only screen mail sent to their mail server. A 3rd party provider will do their own screening.
-steve
_________________ stephen boots Microsoft MVP 2004 - 2020 "Life's always an adventure with computers!"
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