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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:21 pm 
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This is mostly for BB as I know that he runs an XP virtual machine. This may also only apply if using VirtualBox.

Do you shut down a virtual machine normally through the Start Menu or with the close 'X' on the VirtualBox window? If through the Start Menu you may want to try the 'X'. Click the 'X' and select to save state. I started doing this a while ago and it is a lot faster as to booting this way. I just timed it and I'm back to the desktop on my XP virtual machine in just about right at 15 seconds using save state. Also you can save state with apps open. When you next start the virtual machine those apps will already be open and right where you left off.

As a note this is really only effective if you are shutting down, not doing a restart.

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:30 pm 
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Save State is effectively Sleep for the VMs. :-)

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:39 pm 
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sboots wrote:
Save State is effectively Sleep for the VMs. :-)

This is true but hibernate might be closer...

Actually game console emulators are really just virtual machines too. I like that both my Super Nintendo and PS1 emulators also have save state.

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:59 pm 
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Hibernate in Windows would create a file at the root of the system drive. Since you are saving the VM from the VM host, the machine is in a suspended state with no hibernate file and not actually sleeping from a Windows perspective. So, I recant calling it "sleep." :-D

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:20 pm 
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sboots wrote:
Hibernate in Windows would create a file at the root of the system drive. Since you are saving the VM from the VM host, the machine is in a suspended state with no hibernate file and not actually sleeping from a Windows perspective. So, I recant calling it "sleep." :-D

Actually VirtualBox does create a file in a folder called snapshots. For my XP virtual machine this file is ~1.6 GB. I'll compromise and call it a hybrid hibernate as the snapshot files are held in a folder on the host hard drive not on the virtual hard drive. :mrgreen:

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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:53 am 
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Since that file is not within the OS of the guest, but rather on the host, I presume it contains settings relevant to VirtualBox settings for the VM state. I'll buy the "hybrid hibernate" name. :-D

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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:51 am 
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sboots wrote:
Since that file is not within the OS of the guest, but rather on the host, I presume it contains settings relevant to VirtualBox settings for the VM state. I'll buy the "hybrid hibernate" name. :-D

Can't say that I know all that much about the thing Steve. Not sure what you mean by settings as the VM settings are in a configuration file for each VM that designates the number of cores, memory and drives along with other stuff. I can't say for fact but I THINK the snapshot is just a memory dump... Yes, just searched a bit and it is a memory dump but more including exploitation prevention and the "physical state" of the VM.
http://wiki.yobi.be/wiki/RAM_analysis

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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:33 am 
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:mrgreen:
Pretty sure that we're on the same page. The bottom line is that using the X to close a VM and save it's state is faster and often more convenient that shutting one down from within the VM itself. :-)

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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:34 pm 
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sboots wrote:
:mrgreen:
Pretty sure that we're on the same page. The bottom line is that using the X to close a VM and save it's state is faster and often more convenient that shutting one down from within the VM itself. :-)

Yep, same page. ;)

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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:42 pm 
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Jay, sorry for the delay.....family medical issues.

Yes, I use Virtual Box to run XP in virtual mode. When finished, I always select the "Power off the machine" option. I've never used the Save State option. The reason for this is I want a clean shutdown in the event that my Windows 10 host freezes.

As you know, I have been fighting this freezing problem for a long time. And I've tried every solution I could find and/or that was recommended to me. When the freeze occurs, my keyboard and mouse are inoperative and I have to do a cold restart. I don't know what would happen to my virtual machine when this happens if I left it in a Save State. Also, I only use the VM about once a week, so I can live with a longer startup time.

This freezing problem is a strange one. Sometimes my computer will go days before it happens. Other times it will happen 4 or 5 times a day. And it ALWAYS happens when my computer is idle......never when I'm using it. It's like the monitor watches me, and when I leave the room it shouts to the keyboard and mouse "Freeze Time".

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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:04 pm 
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Personally I think the freeze issue with your system is the same as mine with my second desktop. Mine won't actually freeze but just gets weird with such things as the right click context menu not working. Running Windows 10 I have to restart every 3-5 days as it runs out of resources. I think that your system actually crashes when it runs too low on resources.

I really think our issue is the same with that being that the system is still able to run Windows 10 but not with being happy about it. You might ask why this would only happen when the system is idle but is it really idle? When your system is idle is when Windows does all its maintenance stuff and your security software is likely to scan. With the heavy hard drive access required for such things the system could, at times, be more active at an idle than when you are actively using.

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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:37 pm 
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Good analysis, Jay. By idle, I meant I wasn't doing anything on the computer. I knew a lot of stuff was going on in the background. I just wish I knew what resources were being stressed or over used.

I know over the years I have really loaded up this computer. Two internal drives, four external drives, two permanent flash drives, two usb hubs, five 24/7 streaming security cameras, etc. But even with this 'load', the computer performs well when I'm using it. Perplexing.......

Thinking back, I wonder if File History might be the culprit.....when does it save files? All this started about the time I added a fourth external drive for File History, and the 2GB drive is already so full that I can only really save the last version of any file. Maybe I need to unplug that drive temporarily and see what happens. Do you think?

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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:54 pm 
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I don't use file history so can't really give an opinion. Mayhaps someone else has a thought...

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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:31 am 
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Steve, do you know? Does File History backup/save files during idle time, or as soon as I close a file out?

EDIT: I sorta answered my own question. I have File History set up to save files 'daily', but I still don't know what time or when....will it wait until idle time to do it? I wonder if that is part of Maintenance activities?

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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:55 am 
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File History is somewhat interactive -- that is, it saves the copy as a change is being saved. There is a whole lot of maintenance that Windows does when the PC is otherwise idle -- Defragmentation is one, for example.

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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:24 pm 
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I haven't used VM's in a while, but I always shut them down from the start menu.


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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:03 pm 
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dvair wrote:
I haven't used VM's in a while, but I always shut them down from the start menu.

I used to do the same until recently. I was just playing and found that saving the state is much quicker especially on startup.

@BB: If I were to suspect software causing your crashes I would look at Acronis before file history. I don't know about Acronis 2017 but my 2018 is an extreme resource hog. That is why I do my images manually from an Acronis recovery disk instead of actually having it installed.

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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:21 pm 
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Jay, thanks. I have also been suspecting Acronis. I use it a couple of times a week, going to different drives. I may turn it off for a few days and see what happens. I am definitely in an 'overkill' mode when it comes to backups....I use Acronis, Macrium, and Windows 7. Yet I have never had to do a restore.

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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:31 pm 
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bbarry wrote:
Jay, thanks. I have also been suspecting Acronis. I use it a couple of times a week, going to different drives. I may turn it off for a few days and see what happens. I am definitely in an 'overkill' mode when it comes to backups....I use Acronis, Macrium, and Windows 7. Yet I have never had to do a restore.

Does Acronis 2017, like 2018, have the security package to protect itself and backups? If so at least turn that off. You have MBAM and Defender for your security; you don't need Acronis playing anti-virus. This is one of the biggest resource hog parts of Acronis. Too bad that you like to schedule Acronis as, even with the security part turned off it is still running, just not doing anything. If you ever want to try using Acronis from boot media make the recovery disk in Linux format. It will look and operate the same but boots a lot quicker. Another advantage with the Linux boot media is that you can "hide" any internal image/clone destination drives. I used Disk Management to remove the drive letters from my internal destination drives so it is just about like they are not even there. With the Linux boot media these hidden drives will still show but not with the Windows based recovery media. Not trying to talk you into doing this; just giving some info.

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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:33 pm 
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Jay, Acronis 2017 does not have the Active Protection feature.

I'm not sure how to disable Acronis 2017. All I've done thus far is to go into each Backup and change the schedule to 'do not schedule'. I'm not sure how much good that will do, but at least I won't be doing anymore Acronis backups until I turn schedules back on.

Is there a better way to temporarily disable Acronis to minimize resource use?

Sorry, but you are talking a little (a lot, lol) over my head with recovery disk in Linux format, hiding drive destinations, etc.

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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:43 pm 
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The hiding drives is just a little security precaution. While some may get through most infections won't see my internal backup drives.

Not sure about the disabling Acronis but you may want to look in its settings to see if there is an option to not start with Windows. As long as Acronis starts with Windows it is still going to use resources even with schedules turned off.

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:40 pm 
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jaylach wrote:
Not sure about the disabling Acronis but you may want to look in its settings to see if there is an option to not start with Windows. As long as Acronis starts with Windows it is still going to use resources even with schedules turned off.

OK, good news (knock on wood). Using Task Manager, I disabled the three Acronis startup items. That was six days ago, and I haven't had a freeze since then. Also, as you alluded to, my computer appears to be running considerably faster. So hopefully Acronis was my resource problem.

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:41 pm 
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jaylach wrote:
@BB: If I were to suspect software causing your crashes I would look at Acronis before file history. I don't know about Acronis 2017 but my 2018 is an extreme resource hog. That is why I do my images manually from an Acronis recovery disk instead of actually having it installed.

Jay, as previously reported, I have had no screen/mouse freezes since I disabled the Acronis 2017 startup items 6 days ago. So now I am ready to actually uninstall Acronis and then do images manually the way you do.

So can you provide me with the exact steps to follow to create my images manually? I don't have the Acronis program disk because I purchased an electronic download. But I do have a DVD disk that I created and labeled as "Acronis 2016 Bootable WinPE-based Rescue Media". I also created a bootable USB drive. I do not have Linux loaded on my computer nor do I know how to use it.

My objective is to manually create an Acronis backup monthly. Thanks.......

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:00 pm 
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bbarry wrote:
jaylach wrote:
@BB: If I were to suspect software causing your crashes I would look at Acronis before file history. I don't know about Acronis 2017 but my 2018 is an extreme resource hog. That is why I do my images manually from an Acronis recovery disk instead of actually having it installed.

Jay, as previously reported, I have had no screen/mouse freezes since I disabled the Acronis 2017 startup items 6 days ago. So now I am ready to actually uninstall Acronis and then do images manually the way you do.

So can you provide me with the exact steps to follow to create my images manually? I don't have the Acronis program disk because I purchased an electronic download. But I do have a DVD disk that I created and labeled as "Acronis 2016 Bootable WinPE-based Rescue Media". I also created a bootable USB drive. I do not have Linux loaded on my computer nor do I know how to use it.

My objective is to manually create an Acronis backup monthly. Thanks.......

Open Acronis and go to Tools (I think) and select to create boot media. Go to advanced and select Linux. Burn yourself a few or save as an ISO file and use that to burn.

Don't freak on the word Linux. :mrgreen: I know that you don't have or know Linux and you don't need. The Linux boot disk is just running under Linux to execute the Acronis software. The actual software is the same so Linux is invisible. I just like the Linux version as it will see some drives that the Win PE version will not and boots quicker. Do proof this before burning a bunch of disks. ;) My only concern I have is, if the same system, you had initial issues with your NVME SSD that required an added driver. If the Linux build does not see your drive you may need to go with the WinPE version.

You make your backups by booting to the CD/DVD and doing manual backups exactly as you would within Windows. You select the source and destination and let it do its thing.

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:31 pm 
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Thanks for the response, Jay. Yes, initially I had to have Velocity Micro supply me with a different driver for my SSD, but that was years ago. The issue was that the initial driver was for Win 10, and as you know I initially ran Win7 on this computer. So Velocity had to send me a Win 7 driver for the SSD.

Now, before I create a Linux boot media, can't I try my WinPE version first? And if it works, at that point can't I uninstall Acronis 2017 from my computer and do my backups manually from this point on?

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