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 Post subject: Re: Questions About SSDs
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:32 am 
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You are quite welcome but I should have mentioned EasyBCD earlier as it has a really nice OS migration tool. I just haven't had need for the software in ages and sort of forgot about the thing.

It would have allowed you to migrate just the OS of choice from your source hard drive to the SSD with nothing else involved while also optimizing the SSD for the OS. You could have then just shrunk the partition it made on the SSD for the OS and just set up your other partitions and then just done a drag and drop of the data.

Sorry... I sort of tend to forget about some software gems until I need. Any time that you run a multiple boot you should have EasyBCD installed... just don't forget about it as I did... ;)

Another gem for dealing with drives and partitions is EaseUS Partition Master. It should be named ... Partition Magic.
http://www.easeus.com/download/epmf-download.html
You will probably be seeing another post that involves this software in relation to a new 4TB drive I purchased.

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About SSDs
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:53 am 
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Well, Jay -- things have gone from bad to worse I'm afraid. I thought I remembered how to use EasyBCD, but I may have screwed things up.

In Review: After I hooked up the SSD and new HD, both cloned, I was able to boot only into 8.1 even though the menu that shows at bootup showed 10, 8.1 and 7. Choosing either 7 or 8.1 gave me "The selected entry could not be loaded because the application is missing or corrupt. 0x0000225." Earlier I had been able to boot into 7 with the 8.1/10 drive disconnected, and boot into 8.1 with the 7 drive disconnected. With both connected, I could boot only into 8.1.

Now since my last post: I opened EasyBCD and saw all three OS's listed on the View Settings tab
Attachment:
EasyBCD View Settings.JPG
EasyBCD View Settings.JPG [ 74.25 KiB | Viewed 15903 times ]
, except 7 was not then showing as default at the top. I still couldn't get into 7 or 10, so I clicked the BCD Backup/Repair tab and told it to Reset BCD configuration. That didn't work so I had it Re-create/repair boot files, and that's when 7 was added as the default and the Edit Boot Menu tab display was changed to
Attachment:
EasyBCD Edit Boot Menu.JPG
EasyBCD Edit Boot Menu.JPG [ 58.31 KiB | Viewed 15903 times ]
. There is nothing but Windows 7 showing and it is default. Since 7 would not boot the last time, I'm afraid to reboot now for fear I will not be able to get back to 8.1, the only OS working at this point.

Now if you can talk me through this one successfully, you will be performing a miracle. I still have the original HDs that I removed earlier, of course. Using the SATA dock, I could re-clone both drives I suppose, but hopefully there will be a less time-consuming solution.
Gerry

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About SSDs
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:31 pm 
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Personally, at this point, I'd put the original drives back and start over.

Before starting over make a backup of the boot loader with EasyBCD on separate media.

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About SSDs
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:59 pm 
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Yes -- I was afraid that you'd say that. There's a slight problem with that: the SSD is now mounted in a 2.5" to 3.5" bracket and it was a bear to get the tiny screws in straight -- I don't want to remove them. Can I now reverse the procedure, that is, clone the two (SSD and new HD) now-internal drives from the originals connected via SATA docking station?

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About SSDs
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:53 pm 
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Just connect the old drive without mounting.

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About SSDs
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:07 pm 
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BTW, this is what your overview in EasyBCD should look like.
Attachment:
bcd-overview.jpg
bcd-overview.jpg [ 65.7 KiB | Viewed 15883 times ]


You MIGHT be able to save your new setup if you want to try.

Method #1:
Open EasyBCD and go to BCD Backup/repair.
Select Recreate/repair boot files.
Click Perform Action.
Look at the overview and see if it looks more like mine.

Method #2:
Open EasyBCD and go to BCD Backup/Repair.
Under Backup and Restore Bootloader Settings browse to where you want the backup and give it a name.
Select to Backup Settings.
Go to Edit Boot Menu.
Remove/delete all occurrences of Windows 7.
Go to Add New Entry.
Set the Type to Microsoft Windows Vista/7/8.
Set Name to Microsoft Windows 7 or really any name you want.
Set Drive to the drive that holds Windows 7.
Click on Add Entry.
See what the Overview looks like.

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About SSDs
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:50 pm 
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I used both methods and neither looked like your overview. Using method #2, I got an overview that showed just Windows 7, nothing else. I rebooted and came right into Windows 7 with no choices displayed before the fast boot (thanks to the new SSD) into 7.

How about if I hooked up both original HDs (without mounting) and booted into 8.1? From there I would run EasyBCD and save that .bcd file, which presumably would show the correct boot operations, then disconnect the originals and connect the mounted drives again. If I could then boot into either 7 or 8.1, I would run the saved .bcd file in EasyBCD, hopefully resetting everything in the new drives. Does that sound logical?

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About SSDs
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:08 pm 
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Nope, You now have a good boot to 7 with the SSD don't do anything that could disrupt that... You might want to post another shot of your Overview unless your Overview looks like either of the entries for Win 7 on my shot.

Make sure that the Win 8.1 drive is connected where you want. I assume that it is still mounted but make sure that it is connected.

In Win 7 open EasyBCD and go to Add New Entry. Do the same as you did for Win 7 but add Win 8.1 instead. Make sure that you use the correct drive entry for the 8.1 drive. Also make sure that 7 is set as the default.

It probably won't but it is possible that the 8.1 drive holds a loader that could take precedent booting you to 8.1. If this happens just add your Win 7 entries like before and go with it.

Do let me know if boots straight to 8.1 or defaults to 8.1. Either case will indicate that the loader on the 8.1 drive is in control. We will fix that after we get both OSs loading correctly.

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About SSDs
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:22 pm 
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Well, I screwed up again. Before I saw your response here, I found a .bcd backup file from last December. I reasoned that would have the right configuration and told Easybcd to use it. Now I can't boot to anything. I am now running the Windows automatic repair function from my 8 setup disc, but it's been "Attempting repairs " for the last 15 minutes. Nothing seems to be happening and I am now on my iPad for this. So, reconnect the original drives?

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About SSDs
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:17 pm 
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If 8.1 startup repair (I assume and hope that you are just using the startup repair) does not work try it with the 7 install disk to try to get the SSD booting again. Since we want to end up with the SSD as the main boot drive we always want to get it working first. This is the main concern, getting a good boot to the SSD. After that it SHOULD be just a matter of cleaning things up to get it all working unless the Win 8 repair attempt messes up that install...

Is the Win 8 install disk actually for Win 8 or 8.1? If for 8 and you are running 8.1 the attempt could possibly waste your 8.1 install. I'm not really sure on this aspect as I've never tried to do it but it must be remembered that Win 8 and 8.1 are not the same critter. For future reference, if the install disk is for 8, not 8.1, you need to go to backup and recovery and make a recovery CD. This is the disk that you would use for trying to fix 8.1.

While it was lacking on my part to not have instructed to make a backup of each successful BCD change I hope that you have been doing so and have a backup from when it booted to the SSD without issue. If so, and you get back in on either Win 7 or 8.1 immediately open EasyBCD... I'm getting tired of typing 'EasyBCD' all the time. Unless this is not fixed this evening and I forget, from now on EasyBCD is just EB... Anyway, whether you get in to 8.1 or 7 restore the EB backup from when it booted to Win 7 without issue or go back and follow the instructions that got you to that point. Now got to BCD Backup/Restore in EB and select to Change boot drive and click to Perform Action. You will be presented with a dialog asking what drive, select the SSD. Cross your fingers, toes, legs and arms and re-boot. You should still boot to 7. Leave things as they are if it works until you get back to me with the results.

Please clarify something for me. Are there two 8.1 drives or is the same 8.1 drive constant through all this?

Oh, almost forgot to add. The probable reason that your attempt to restore the EB backup from December borked things is that the BCD ID did not match. When back in on Win 7 look at the overview and you will see a listing for 'BCD ID'. At the point that only Win 7 is booting it will probably just say 'Current'. Once everything is fixed, and you look, the not active OS will have a string of characters after BCD ID. If this 'identifier' does not match a good boot isn't going to happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About SSDs
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:50 pm 
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Jay, I waited for 90 minutes using the Windows 8 (not 8.1 because that was a download and I didn't make a recovery disc (my bad!). I was using the automatic repair function from the repair your computer menu and it started by "diagnosing your computer" and then into "attempting to fix your computer" (or words to that effect). Nothing happened -- it did nothing in 90 minutes except spin a circle on the screen. With no way to boot into anything, I have now connected back the two original drives and am in 8.1. I will make a recovery CD of 8.1. There are two 8.1 drives: one on the original HD that I am working in now, and the other a cloned copy on a new 2TB HD that is mounted in the computer. It also contains a cloned Windows 10 partition. The SSD is cloned from the Windows 7 partition and two data partitions, but there is a smaller drive also there which I guess is the boot drive, but I can't see it in Disk Manager or File Explorer here. On the SSD it came up as D:, but I had to change it because in my original configuration D: is either 7 or 8.1, depending on which OS I'm using.

I really appreciate you sticking with me on this; I know it's time consuming and I'm not paying you. I currently can't boot from the SSD so I can't do as you suggest. Could I not run EB here in 8.1, or go into 7 and do it, saving that boot configuration? Oh, no that won't work because I can't boot into the new drives at all. Am I stuck?

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About SSDs
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:55 pm 
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Do you have a Win 7 retail install disk or recovery disk?

Unless it will not boot to anything please re-connect the SSD instead of the old Win 7 drive. Having the SSD working is the first and most important factor. Even if it will only go to 8.1 with the SSD connected keep it connected.

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About SSDs
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:52 pm 
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Just came back from dinner.
Yes, I do have a Win 7 retail install disk. Before I re-connect the SSD and hopefully see it from this 8.1 drive (old one), I will do the recovery disk. Then I will shut down to make the switch on the Win 7 drives, so I should have something more to report in 30 minutes or so.

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About SSDs
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:20 pm 
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Oh, heck! Once I found where you do a recovery disk, it will only let me make a recovery USB drive. My computer won't boot from a USB drive and I don't know how to add that function to the BIOS. So I have found the Microsoft Website where I downloaded an ISO file that I'll now have to burn to an executable file. This will take longer than I had planned. What time do you go to bed -- or are you a night owl like me?

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About SSDs
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:55 pm 
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gmfry wrote:
Just came back from dinner.
Yes, I do have a Win 7 retail install disk. Before I re-connect the SSD and hopefully see it from this 8.1 drive (old one), I will do the recovery disk. Then I will shut down to make the switch on the Win 7 drives, so I should have something more to report in 30 minutes or so.
NO!!! At ALL times you need to have your SSD connected. This is the drive that we are working with. We can't work with it if it isn't connected. LOL! Pull the old Win 7 drive and let someone three houses down the road hold it so you are not tempted to use. :mrgreen: This drive is your failsafe and should NEVER be connected unless it becomes a last ditch effort.

Either I am giving bad instructions or you are not following what I am saying. With the SSD connected boot to the Win 7 install disk and select repair options. Only use the startup repair options. Seriously, use ONLY the startup repair. It can take two to four runs for the startup repair to fix things, possibly more. I would run t least six times before giving up.

Do not worry about, or even think about, Win 8.1. Right now all we are concerned with is getting the SSD to boot to Win 7 with success. It MIGHT even be a good idea to disconnect the 8.1 drive so that the only connected drive is the SSD.

Trust me or don't. Right now your only concern is to get a good boot from the SSD to Win 7. I know that you are anxious and worried but you have to follow instructions step by step regardless of how slow and tedious the process seems. We were home and clear. If you had not attempted to restore the EB backup from December you would be up and running the dual boot right now. Trust in that I'm not mad at you or anything but when you ask for help you have to follow the given instructions and ONLY those instructions. You just cannot do "side fixes" such, as in this case, restoring a EB backup from before the current configuration.

You have to know that I like you Gerry. I'm NOT yelling at you. I'm just trying to explain how things have to be...

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About SSDs
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:47 am 
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You are right -- I am extremely frustrated, especially after trying to make an 8.1 restore disk from an ISO download that was promptly erased by this system as soon as I clicked on the file. I had to take a break, but I'm back and promise to be a good boy and obey instructions to the letter! I will attempt now to make contact with the SSD by reconnecting it and report back what happens.

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About SSDs
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:16 am 
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Be cool my friend. I know that right now you probably feel like things are out of hand but they really are not. If I had your system in front of me I could probably fix this in 20-30 minutes but that is not the case.

I am pretty much done for the night. I'm just a few minutes short of a personal project being completed in its first stage and going to start the second stage after a few tests. If you throw up more info I may still respond to this thread tonight but can't promise.

As a test case I would be interested in the results if you were to disconnect all drives except for the SSD and try a boot.

As an aside I might even try a cure from a side attack. We just MIGHT try shrinking a working boot partition and installing Win 10 on the new available space. The Win 10 install should see all installed versions of Windows and set up a new boot loader and menu. PLEASE co NOT do this at this time.

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About SSDs
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:20 am 
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Hooray, Jay! We're into Windows 7 Home Premium on the C: drive on the SSD. All the drive letters are messed up again, but I'm not touching them yet. My "old" 8.1 drive is still connected. The repair function from the Win 7 setup disk told me I had a boot problem, I told it to repair and restart, and in about 30 seconds we were up and running. What's next?

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About SSDs
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 2:20 am 
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Good deal!

I want the new 8.1 drive connected instead of the old.

After connecting the new 8.1 drive please reboot. Hopefully you will still get to Win 7. If so please post a screen shot of the EB overview screen.

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About SSDs
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:17 am 
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OK, I just came back to the computer after a break for the late TV news. I left Windows 7 open and haven't touched drive letters. While still running, I unplugged the old 8.1 drive and connected the new. In File Explorer I see three of the four partitions: Windows 8 and two data partitions. I do not see the Windows 10 partition there or in Disk Management. In the latter there is a 148 MB partition labled Data (D:) on the Windows 7 SSD which I assume is the boot partition. I am now going to reboot with the new Windows 8.1 connected along with the Windows 7 SSD. Here's what the EB Overview looks like:
Attachment:
EB Overview Win 7.JPG
EB Overview Win 7.JPG [ 61.16 KiB | Viewed 15844 times ]
.

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About SSDs
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:45 am 
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When I rebooted, I got a blue screen with the usual message so I pressed F9 to get the option of three OS's (not the newer blue with rectangular buttons, but white lettering on black background). When I clicked on 8.1, it booted directly into Windows 7. In File Explorer, Windows 8 is showing as G: when it should be D:, but the system has assigned that small 104 MB (not 148 as I wrote earlier) partition to D:. Before all this I don't recall seeing that partition either in File Explorer or in Disk Management. I suspect it is supposed to be hidden and not have a letter.

Going to bed now; I'll boot up this machine about noon PDT. Thanks for all your help, Jay. I look forward to working with you again later today.
Gerry

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About SSDs
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:59 am 
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Just before closing down, I checked File Explorer and Drive Management again and suddenly the Windows 10 partition is visible! All the folders appear as I remember them. I have no idea why this partition was not visible last time, but rebooting apparently did something to show it.

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About SSDs
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:40 pm 
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I guess I could have done a better job of wording things. I did not mean for you to hot-swap the Win 8.1 drives. Seems like we probably got away with it though.

After doing a hot-swap with the drives I'm not at all surprised that it looked different before and after a boot.

Don't worry too much about the drive letters, we just want everything to boot. When done with this we will be removing drive letters to isolate the different OS partitions anyway.

Go back to EB and remove the Win 8 entry then add it again per the previous instructions. Use the drive letter that shows in File Explorer. Re-boot and see what happens. Am I correct that this is not the 8.1 drive that you ran the repair? Also, this current 8.1 drive has booted successfully before, correct?

Is the Win 10 partition a good install that should be functioning?

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About SSDs
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:39 pm 
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The Windows 10 partition was cloned at the same time Win 8.1 and two data partitions on that HD were -- I cloned the HD to the new 2TB HD. As to the hot swap, I reasoned that if I can do a hot swap of hard drives in my USB dock, I should be able to do that here also. Apparently that was not a good idea and I won't do it again. Thanks for the guidance.

The current 8.1 drive was not repaired; the Win 7 SSD was repaired and it shows in the boot menu as having been recovered. I don't remember if it ever booted -- I don't think that it did.

I have deleted the 8.1 in EB and then added it back. I'll show you the overview here and then I'll reboot and report back what happens.
Attachment:
BCD 8.1 Overview.JPG
BCD 8.1 Overview.JPG [ 62.76 KiB | Viewed 15813 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About SSDs
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:53 pm 
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I rebooted and up came a black screen with white letters and a choice of Win 7 or Win 8.1. When I selected 8.1, I got another screen titled Windows Boot Manager and telling me that Windows failed to start, etc.
Status: 0xc0000001, and that a required file is missing or contains errors.

I pressed enter to get the previous screen and selected Win 7. The next screen told me that disk G, the Win 8.1 partition, was about to be file checked. I stopped it because I wasn't sure we want that, but now I'm thinking maybe that would fix something that is broken. I'll wait for further instructions. Then it booted flawlessly and speedily (yeah SSD!) into Win 7 restored.

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