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bbarry
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 Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:36 am |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 2406
Location: North Central Arkansas
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I have a 2 TB hard drive that contains nothing but data - animal photo and video folders/files from my many trail cameras. The drive is several years old and is accessed almost daily. To err on the side of caution, I want to backup this hard drive to a new one.
A couple of years ago we had a good discussion on cloning as a means of backing up a hard drive for replacement purposes. Is that still the general consensus? I use EaseUS Partition Master, and I notice that it has a drive cloning capability.
Recommendations appreciated......
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jaylach
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Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:03 pm |
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
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Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
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I only clone my system drive but there is no reason that you can't do so for your data drive. A down side is that it is likely that you will have to do a restart for the clone to process. Don't know if this is the case with Partition Master but is with Acronis and Disk Wizard. Also doing a clone to an external drive will probably take quite a while.
Actually I thought that you used Sync Toy. If that is correct you can just create a new job in Sync Toy with the new drive as the destination.
Another option would be to just drag and drop everything from the data drive to the new drive. When it alerts that a file already exists (after the initial backup) just select to skip the file checking the box to do the same for all cases.
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dvair
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Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:47 pm |
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Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:39 am
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Location: Johnstown, NY
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I image my system and data drives once a week and then clone them to different drives about once a month or so. I use the built in Windows 10 imaging and the lite version of Acronis that comes with my drives. The nice thing about a clone is that if a drive fails, you can plug the clone in its place and keep on going.
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jaylach
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Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:47 pm |
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
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Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
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I basically do the same as David as to the cloning and imaging. Our difference is that I don't image my data drive, only my system drive. While I basically clone my data drive it is actually a sync with GoodSync being used in a one way direction. If I'm right that you have it in use you can do the same with Sync Toy from your data drive to the new drive. The only real advantage of syncing over cloning is the time involved. If you do a clone you re-write everything to the destination drive. If you sync it is faster as you just make changes to the destination drive to make both the source and destination the same. Still there is nothing wrong with cloning. Just start it when you are going to be away from the system for awhile. Syncing and cloning as to a data drive ends up with the same result. It is just that syncing will probably be much quicker. In either case you just replace the data drive with the cloned or synced drive if the data drive fails as David stated. David and I have set out your basic options. Only you can decide which will do best for you. 
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bbarry
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Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:37 pm |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 2406
Location: North Central Arkansas
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Thanks guys. You gave me plenty to consider. I never thought about using Sync Toy (which I have and like). Now I just need to get my new drive ordered.
Thanks again........
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jaylach
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Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:52 pm |
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
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Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
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YW. I assume that you are talking an external drive for the backup. That has been my assumption all along. If that is correct, and you use Sync Toy, I suggest that you do not use a schedule with Sync Toy. Set up the Sync Toy job but do not schedule, run the job manually whenever you want. Only have the destination external plugged in when doing a sync. This helps protect the backup from such things as an infection and/or power surge. And I must ask... If you are already using Sync Toy I would have to guess that it is to back up your data by syncing between two or more already existing drives. If that is the case are you not getting ready to do what you are already doing?  You can't be using Sync Toy to backup/sync your system drive as the destination would not be a bootable drive. Well, you could in a way but it would be pretty convoluted.
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bbarry
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Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:02 pm |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 2406
Location: North Central Arkansas
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jaylach wrote: YW. I assume that you are talking an external drive for the backup. That has been my assumption all along. If that is correct, and you use Sync Toy, I suggest that you do not use a schedule with Sync Toy. Set up the Sync Toy job but do not schedule, run the job manually whenever you want. Only have the destination external plugged in when doing a sync. This helps protect the backup from such things as an infection and/or power surge. Yes, I'm talking about an external drive. Probably another Transcend StoreJet....I already have four of these with no problems. And I do think I will use SyncToy, since I am familiar with it. And I will not schedule....will do it manually. Not sure what you mean about only have destination external plugged in when syncing. Wouldn't the source drive also have to be plugged in? And what about the other three external USB drives that are always plugged in but not part of this equation?
And I must ask... If you are already using Sync Toy I would have to guess that it is to back up your data by syncing between two or more already existing drives. If that is the case are you not getting ready to do what you are already doing? You can't be using Sync Toy to backup/sync your system drive as the destination would not be a bootable drive. Well, you could in a way but it would be pretty convoluted. No, I'm not looking for a bootable drive.....data storage only. And yes I currently use SyncToy to back up selected data from my SSD system drive to yet another external drive. My intent here is to duplicate all my animal videos/photos that I currently have on a very old drive onto a new drive. I would then lay this old drive aside for now, since it still contains about 7 years of data. But then I would start using my new drive as the main one for these animal videos/photos.
When a trail camera takes a video, this 10-second video file is saved to my SSD system drive and also to the data storage drive. So for awhile a given video exists in two places. But after awhile, my system drive begins to fill up so I have to delete the animal videos contained on it and start anew. But all my videos are still contained on my old storage drive. Since it is an old but important drive, I thought I would just purchase a new drive. I hope this makes sense, but it's a process I've used for years. I am just worried (maybe needlessly) about this old drive that is subjected to a lot of usage, which now includes 24/7 streaming video from my three IP cameras.
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KeepItRetro
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Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:33 pm |
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Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:45 am
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Unless you want to encrypt/compress etc. the new backup drive, I wouldn't clone the source drive. Too many drawbacks: you will be tied to specific software for "uncloning", you won't have easy access to the files, you won't be able to add/remove files if required etc. Just copy the files and use a quality hard drive health monitoring tool (like Hard Disk Sentinel) to keep your data as safe as possible. If you frequently add/delete files from the source, you can use one of the sync tools (24/7 or on a schedule - I prefer the latter and manually) to keep the backup up to date.
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bbarry
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Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:22 pm |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
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Location: North Central Arkansas
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Retro, thanks for your input. I had decided not to clone. What I have decided to do is use SyncToy (with which I am familiar) in manual mode to copy all my folders/files from old source to new target drive.
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jaylach
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Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:42 pm |
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
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Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
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@ BB: When I said to only have the destination drive connected when doing a backup I meant to disconnect the destination drive at other times.
@ KeepItRetro: I think that you are confusing a clone of a drive with an image. A clone is an exact copy of the source drive making the drives interchangeable.
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bbarry
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Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:56 pm |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 2406
Location: North Central Arkansas
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jaylach wrote: @ BB: When I said to only have the destination drive connected when doing a backup I meant to disconnect the destination drive at other times.
OK, now I understand. But in my case, the destination drive will physically replace my old source drive, so it will then stay connected and will be used on a daily basis for storing my animal videos/photos. And I had the same opinion about a clone. I thought the only drawback to be cloning was that SyncToy would probably be faster. Is that not correct?
@ KeepItRetro: I think that you are confusing a clone of a drive with an image. A clone is an exact copy of the source drive making the drives interchangeable.
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jaylach
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Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:19 pm |
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
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Yes, Sync Toy would be quicker in most cases but not in this case. I misunderstood and thought that you were setting up a data backup. Since the new drive will be empty everything will have to be copied anyway. If this is a one time operation I'd just drag and drop.
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bbarry
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Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:31 pm |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 2406
Location: North Central Arkansas
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Yea Jay, I probably didn't make myself clear. I want to 'retire' an old data drive and replace it with a new drive. But before doing this, I need to copy all the data from my old drive to my new drive.
So you are saying that drag/drop would be faster and probably easier than either cloning or using SyncToy?
Thanks again for your sage advice......
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jaylach
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Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:07 pm |
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
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Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
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bbarry wrote: Yea Jay, I probably didn't make myself clear. I want to 'retire' an old data drive and replace it with a new drive. But before doing this, I need to copy all the data from my old drive to my new drive.
So you are saying that drag/drop would be faster and probably easier than either cloning or using SyncToy?
Thanks again for your sage advice...... If this is just a one time event then I would just drag/drop. Doing a drag/drop of everything on your current data drive to the new would probably be no faster or slower than using Sync Toy but easier. If you use Sync Toy to move the data then you have to setup a job within Sync Toy that is only going to be used once. With drag/drop you just highlight everything on the old drive and copy to the new. It saves the time and effort of setting up a Sync Toy job. Where you would want to use Sync Toy is if you have two data drives such as I do between my main and second systems. In such a case Sync Toy, or GoodSync as I use, can be used to keep both data drives current and the same. This gives a data drive that is in use along with a backup of that drive in case the in use drive happens to fail. Whether old or new I would never have my data on just one drive. Drives are funny critters. One may last 10 or more years and another may fail within a week. Sure, the new one that fails in a week is covered by warranty but that just replaces the drive. It does nothing to restore your now lost data. If I remember right you said that you currently have four externals. Do any of these drives have enough free space to hold a backup of all your data? If so partition one adding a partition large enough to hold all your data with plenty of extra space and name it something like "data2" or "data backup". Now you would use sync Toy to sync your data drive to the backup drive/partition. You now have a redundant backup of all your data. If your active data drive fails you just go to the backup drive/partition and all you lose is what was added to the active data drive since the last sync. Whether you do it through a network between systems, as do, I or between external drives the result is the same. If I remember you do faithful system images. Your data deserves the same treatment but an image of a data drive is, to me, inconvenient and cumbersome. Bottom line is that the backup data drive/partition becomes a clone of the active data drive when last synced. The difference between syncing a data drive and doing clones is that the sync only makes changes while the clone process has to re-write everything to the backup drive/partition. The sync is not only much quicker but also saves a lot of wear and tear on the drives. Feel free to ask questions as it is often hard for me to explain things in easy terms that I have done forever.
Oh, an an added note...Say that you did everything I said above and your active data drive failed. Here is all that you would need to do. 1) Of course you would remove the failed active data drive. 2) Rename the backup drive/partition to be the same as the failed active data drive. Say that the failed active drive was named "data" and the backup was named "data2". Rename "data2" to "data". 3) Go to Drive Management and change the drive letter for the backup drive/partition to match what the old data drive happened to be. 4) The result is that nothing changes as to operation. Any links to your data files will still work as if nothing happened. You replace the failed drive and do the same as to setting up the backup. If you name the replacement drive the same as the original backup and use the same drive letter your existing Sync Toy job will even still work. Sorry, this post is probably much more info than you actually want but I want you to be aware of all the possible aspects that come to my feeble mind... 
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bbarry
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Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:22 pm |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
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Location: North Central Arkansas
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Jay, thanks for all the good info. I will read it again in the morning, but I think I understand all you are saying.
It's my bedtime and my mind is fading, lol. But I wanted to mention a couple of things. As you know, I'm a big believer in backups (especially data backups), and all my data is automatically backed up on several drives. Even all my animal videos/photos are backed up using File History, SyncToy and Acronis (image).
But I have one drive where I store my animal videos/photos in real time, with new ones going there almost on a daily basis via drag/drop from my camera SD cards. Even though this drive is backed up weekly, since it gets a lot of usage I thought it might be time to replace it with a new drive. Thus my original question....how best to copy this data to a new drive before I retire the old drive. For my intended purpose, you have convinced me that drag/drop is the way to go. Good night all....
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jaylach
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Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:52 pm |
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
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Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
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Ya, if it is going to be a one time thing, I'd go drag/drop. BB wrote: Even though this drive is backed up weekly, since it gets a lot of usage I thought it might be time to replace it with a new drive. Funny thing with drives... They can arrive dead or can last next to forever. I know of two Maxtor drives (120GB & 160GB) that have been in use for what has to be 15 years. They used to be mine but I gave them up to help someone as I was getting larger drives anyway. Of course 15 years ago drives were a bit sturdier. WOW! Gave up those drives about nine years ago and it seems like ages.  Well, as to electronics, I guess it is ages... I tend to look at how a drive is performing and running a diagnostics once in a while rather than how old it is. That doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with replacing your drive. Even if the drive is totally fine you will feel safer and that is important. After all, since you say it is old, you have gotten your money out of the drive. Still I wouldn't throw it away. Stash it someplace and you have an 'emergency' drive that can be used to temporarily replace a drive that fails in the future. What the heck, spin drive prices have gotten so low that throwing in a new one is trivial as to cost. Shoot, I paid less for my 6 TB drives then I did for either the aforementioned 120 GB or 160 GB drives. Pardon my above rambling as that is all it really is... You know me; pithy I ain't.
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bbarry
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Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:28 pm |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
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Location: North Central Arkansas
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Jay, 'tis OK for you to ramble. Because in my diary, I don't have you filed under pithy, lol.
I don't plan on throwing away my old drive. It contains 7 years of animal videos/photos, so I will be hanging on to it. And I know I may be worrying about nothing with this old drive, as it has shown no signs of poor performance. So it is the 'age' thing with me, which may turn around to bite me in the butt.
It so happens, I do have another Transcend 2 TB drive that I keep for emergencies. During the past couple of years, I did a Win 10 upgrade for computers belonging to two friends. After completing each upgrade, I did a system image backup for each computer in case my friends had initial problems.
Recall that I currently have three PC's.....this Win 10 computer, an older computer running Win 7 and Win 10 in dual mode (thanks to you showing me how), and a really older computer running just Win 7 (all three are Velocity Micro computers). With these three computers, I have a total of 8 external drives; plus, each computer has two internal drives. On my main Win 10 computer, I do weekly system and data backups using an assortment of Acronis, Macrium, and SyncToy. On my dual mode computer I do monthly updates using Acronis and Win 7 system image backups. On my really older computer, I just do backups when the mood strikes me (~semi annually).
But also on my main Win 10 computer, I do a monthly backup using Acronis, Macrium and SyncToy on an external drive that I then store away from my house for safety purposes. This is something you and Peter encouraged me to do years ago. Remember??
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jaylach
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Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:02 pm |
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 9452
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
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Make sure to let us know how things go with the new drive setup. Yes, I remember about off-site backup storage.
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