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 Post subject: Image Restore issue
 Post Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 7:01 pm 
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I have decided that it is time to quit the Win 10 preview and restore Win 7 to my Media System. The problem is that I can't. I know the image is good as I restored without issue right after making the image.

The image was made with Windows 7 Image Backup and I also made a Recovery Disk. The Image Restore via the Recovery disk will not find my image which is on an external drive. The external is recognized as I can view the contents using the Command Prompt via the booted recovery disk.

Input would be appreciated. While this is not a really big issue there are some features of Win 7 that I prefer over Win 8.1 or 10 as to media.

A few thoughts from my end that I have not yet tried...

1) Attempt the restore through the restore disk's command prompt instead of the restore from image option.

2) Since I don't care about Win 10 on the thing do a current image of 8.1 just in case and wipe the drive for the restore. Two things make me consider this.
a. The drive is partitioned differently than when the Win 7 image was made.
b. The Recovery Disk sees both 8.1 and 10 preview on the drive so MAY just be looking for images for those OSs.

3) Do a clean install of 7 and do the image restore straight from the newly installed OS instead of using the recovery disk.

4) Mount the backup drive within the system instead of as an external. While a possibility I can't really see this as the drive is readable from the recovery disk.

BTW, if it might matter, my initial install of Win 7 Ultimate was done from MSDN version... hmmm, since the MSDN disk is a bit different than a retail version another option might be to boot to the MSDN disk and restore from there. Possible issue I see there is that the MSDN installer is initial release while the image is SP1. Hmmm again... I DO happen to have a hybrid installer that IS SP1. Mayhaps I might try booting from that.

LOL! Of course I decide that I want to do this half way through the 8th day of 9 days off work. :rofl2:

Really it isn't a big deal as I only have a few reasons that I want to do this.

1) I play some really old games and, while only one is not playable, some have a loss of graphics. That is rather funny as the ones with a loss of graphics report that the video card is not capable. Of course the card is far above anything available when the games were made; they just can't read it.

2) This IS primarily a media system. Win 7 just plain handles media better than 8.1 or 10.

3) Go ahead and laugh at me... I LOVE Win Vista's Dream Scenes Desktop. Since this primarily a media system Dream Scenes fits. ;) I can run Dream Scenes in Win 7 but cannot in 8.1 or 10.

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 Post subject: Re: Image Restore issue
 Post Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 12:46 pm 
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Hi Jay

I suspect your only hope may be a wipe and reinstall. I see to big issues. The partitioning and also you used Windows Imaging. It is woefully inadequate, and featureless.

Since I've been in the process of making my Win 7x64, Win 8.1 ready, and am going to transition from Win 10 VM to desktop, I've been dealing with similiar issues, and it is two major issues.

1. Imaging software. I've tested Windows imaging and yes it works, but I can grow a beard in the time it takes. Also no features. Can't mount images etc. Also one imaging program isn't enough, just in case. I use ShadowProtect Macrium and IFW as my primary imaging programs.

2. Partitioning. I don't partition my drives, including my system drive. I have even gotten rid of all the "extra" stuff, that MS does. Gone is the system reserve partition and also that unallocated space. This is true both in the Win 7 image and the Win 8.1 image, as well as my Win 10Tp VM. All that is there is a c: partition that takes up the whole physical drive. When I want to switch between OS, I first update the images with Macrium and IFW, and then restore the image with the other OS. This help make the imaging and restores less prone to problems.

Cleaning up the windows partitions is a great example of Imaging software flexibility. When first installed the Win 8.1 had the c: partition, the System Reserve..boot partition, and the free unallocated space. Shadowprotect is great for this. What I do:

1. Image the complete drive with SP. This gives to images, and a way back just in case.
2. Immediately do a restore, selecting just the c: image as the source.
3. In the destination selection rather then ticking the c: partition, I right click on each choice and select delete volume. That leaves just one space in stead of 3 and the whole disk is marked unformated, unallocated.
4. I right click on that blank space and have 3 options. 1. Create exact partition at the beginning of the disk. 2. Create exact partition at the end of the desk, and 3. Create a partition in all the unallocated space.
I chose option 3 and it creates a new partition. I then tick the box to restore to that

5. In options I select make disk active, restore mbr from image, restore track 0, and restore disk signature.

I let the restore run and at the end of the restore, SP checks for the boot files and if it doesn't find them it does a fix to make the disk bootable.

Bingo, one bootable c: drive that uses the whole physical disk. This solves a whole host of issues. and makes the restores much more reliable, and also faster. I don't use the special restore in macrium and still the restores are in the 15 minute time frame for my system.


Pete


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 Post subject: Re: Image Restore issue
 Post Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 2:05 pm 
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Ok, so here is a question that I might have asked before, I don't remember and am too lazy to search the forum to check. First of all, I really admire Microsoft's offer for the free Win10 install, I really do. But most folks don't have Jay's or Peter's prowess for restoring the entire system. If Microsoft does not get it together, they will get millions of folks with messed up systems. This is a brave, new step that MS is taking and I hope their software engineers are top quality, which they probably are. I, for one, want to jump to Win10, but I also want to be able to recover if something goes cur-flurry.

Acadia

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 Post subject: Re: Image Restore issue
 Post Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 2:27 pm 
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Acadia, I know you use SP, and Macrium. You won't have any issues.

Pete


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 Post subject: Re: Image Restore issue
 Post Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 5:00 pm 
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All fixed...

All data remained intact and still have a dual boot to Win 10. Not sure if I'm going to kill or keep that for now. No reason really to kill it as the default boot is to 7.

Actually the whole issue was my fault. I was booting to the win 8.1 recovery CD instead of the Win 7 recovery.

As has been my past experience the Windows Imaging routines worked flawlessly.

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 Post subject: Re: Image Restore issue
 Post Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 8:44 am 
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Not quite. You shouldn't need a different recovery disk based on OS. Look at all the time wasted.


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 Post subject: Re: Image Restore issue
 Post Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 11:58 am 
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Good grief, a recovery program should just work, isn't that what recovery is all about?

Acadia

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 Post subject: Re: Image Restore issue
 Post Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 6:32 pm 
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Windows imaging is not a third party imaging program. The recovery media is for the specific OS and created within that specific version of Windows. Would you expect a Windows 7 recovery disk to work with an XP install? It has to be kept in mind that the windows recovery disk is not just for restoring an image. It contains everything that the repair section of a retail Windows install disk would have such as the recovery console and the ability to do a system restore.

I can't say what would happen but think that it would be a potential mess if one were to use the system restore routines in Windows 8.1 to try to do a System Restore in Windows XP, Vista, or 7. Shoot, System Restore is so different between even one evolution of Windows that, if you ran a dual boot between XP and Vista, the XP system restore files would be destroyed if the OSs were not totally segregated. This exact issue was what got me started on finding ways to isolate the OSs on a multiple boot.

No... In my opinion I have to say that, if recovery disks were usable between different versions of Windows, there would be more harm caused than good. This was totally my fault for not paying attention to what CD I was loading. It is no different than not paying attention and restoring the wrong image.

Specifically @ Pete: To an extent I agree that a single partition can be a better situation but not in my case. Remember that, on both my laptop and media system, I'm running dual boots. Now consider that my data partition is 260GB due to a LOT of photos, music and website backups. Both systems run a 1TB drive. Show me where I'm wrong but it seems to make more sense to me to have a separate data partition that I can share between the dual boot OSs. It I were to duplicate the data partition on each OS I would be taking up 520GB just as data. Shoot, just a backup of my web sites is 62.3GB not counting the data bases.

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 Post subject: Re: Image Restore issue
 Post Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 10:19 am 
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Partitioning has always been a personal preference. It is more complicated than a single one. I too believe there's an advantage of keeping data separate from the OS but a good imaging solution and plenty of space does minimize the need. It's one of those topics that can be discussed until the cows come home and then some. Just like what it means to have a good imaging system. Which to me means to if one is happy with whatever solution they have then the details - how fast, what recovery media is needed, and so on - don't really matter. All that matters is that you get it to work just like Jay did here. Although discussing it certainly is fun because it's always interesting to see what tickles people's fancy.

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 Post subject: Re: Image Restore issue
 Post Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 1:07 pm 
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I agree, Manny, completely. But what is the common dude or dude-ett supposed to do without Jay's recovery knowledge. They need a SIMPLE program that simply works, no matter what the circumstances. Again, as I hinted above, a Recovery program should work no matter what, or else it really is not a complete recovery program, just sort of, but then we get beyond newbie knowledge.

Acadia

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 Post subject: Re: Image Restore issue
 Post Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 2:41 pm 
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But is the "common dude or dude-ett" going to be running two systems with three different OSs in multiple boot situations?

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 Post subject: Re: Image Restore issue
 Post Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 3:05 pm 
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jaylach wrote:
But is the "common dude or dude-ett" going to be running two systems with three different OSs in multiple boot situations?

Whoa, that's right, this particular forum is for "Advanced users", I sincerely forgot that, ouch, I take my well deserved lumps. :oops2:

Acadia

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 Post subject: Re: Image Restore issue
 Post Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 4:01 pm 
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No problem Acadia and you brought up a valid point. I just think that the average user is going to have one system with one OS so they could not make the same mistake I did by being dumb and grabbing the wrong disk. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Image Restore issue
 Post Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 6:26 pm 
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From what I've seen, I doubt they'd have any recovery disk, or backup to use it on.


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 Post subject: Re: Image Restore issue
 Post Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 12:38 am 
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Peter2150 wrote:
From what I've seen, I doubt they'd have any recovery disk, or backup to use it on.

:rofl2: Another valid point... :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Image Restore issue
 Post Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 4:28 am 
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Very interesting following this thread, I like to see what you lot do. I'm just one of the common dudettes, :-)

I've got 2 systems and run 3 OS's 7, 8.1 and 10 preview in a VM. ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Image Restore issue
 Post Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 7:39 am 
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JoanA wrote:
... I'm just one of the common dudettes, :-)

I've got 2 systems and run 3 OS's 7, 8.1 and 10 preview in a VM. ;-)

Joan, you don't sound like a common dudette to me.
Acadia

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 Post subject: Re: Image Restore issue
 Post Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 9:23 am 
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JoanA wrote:
Very interesting following this thread, I like to see what you lot do. I'm just one of the common dudettes, :-)

I've got 2 systems and run 3 OS's 7, 8.1 and 10 preview in a VM. ;-)


Okay, so Joan what do you do for backup/imaging.


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 Post subject: Re: Image Restore issue
 Post Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 5:14 am 
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I've got external hard drives I do image backups to. I have Acronis, Macrium and the native Windows File History I use.

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 Post subject: Re: Image Restore issue
 Post Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 8:14 am 
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JoanA wrote:
I've got external hard drives I do image backups to. I have Acronis, Macrium and the native Windows File History I use.


Wise. More than one. Do you have Macrium V6?


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 Post subject: Re: Image Restore issue
 Post Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 12:47 pm 
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For what it's worth. I bought a SSD drive to put in my laptop. Used the built in Windows 7 Imaging to a external drive. Popped out the hard drive and installed SSD. Booted with recovery disk and restored image to the SSD. Worked like a charm.

I still use Ghost on my main system, but use the built-in one on my other 3 systems that are in the house.


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 Post subject: Re: Image Restore issue
 Post Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 2:38 pm 
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dvair wrote:
For what it's worth. I bought a SSD drive to put in my laptop. Used the built in Windows 7 Imaging to a external drive. Popped out the hard drive and installed SSD. Booted with recovery disk and restored image to the SSD. Worked like a charm.

I still use Ghost on my main system, but use the built-in one on my other 3 systems that are in the house.

Sounds like you've got a system that works. We all do things differently but I say, if you've got a system that works, stick with it! Ghost? Wow, that's been, as you probably already know, discontinued. But I personally have used at least a couple of programs many years after they had been discontinued because, well, they simply worked!
Acadia

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 Post subject: Re: Image Restore issue
 Post Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 3:04 pm 
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Yes, I know Ghost is no longer an active product. I started with Drive Image years ago and then Symantec/Norton bought them out. Ghost works with Windows 7 so I still use it. When I go to 10 I will have to use something else. I do have a copy of Acronis because Western Digital has a lite version for free to owners of their hard drives.

When I was still working the Computer Industry, I used Ghost to reimage 30 - 100 computers everyday. Had to set up classrooms at an Education Facility that taught classes for getting Certified.


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 Post subject: Re: Image Restore issue
 Post Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 6:56 pm 
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dvair wrote:
... I used Ghost to reimage 30 - 100 computers everyday. ...

Yeah, when I worked at the PA Dept of Ed, the IT people there also used Ghost every day and I cannot remember them ever complaining about it. By the way, although you may already know this, the folks who used to work at Drive Image are now at Shadow Protect and actually, I believe, wrote that program.

Acadia

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 Post subject: Re: Image Restore issue
 Post Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 8:16 pm 
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Speaking of old imaging software... one that I used exclusively when I was running XP and into Vista was Nero's BackItUp. This was only available on Nero Burning Rom Ultra. The Lite versions of Nero had it but in a VERY cut down form called just BackUp that was unreliable. BackItUp was really good though, just not practical to backup to DVDs anymore. The newer version seems to be called SecurDisc 3.0 and does backups to Blu-ray but still, give me an external.

Let's see, that would have been when I was beta testing Vista. I ran beta test versions of Norton on the beta of Vista. For what I was doing with Norton I only had to run the beta for a week at most. I ran the previous version normally. When a new Norton build came out I'd do an image with BackItUp (yes, to DVD, didn't have an extra drive to use something else, took something like 10-11 DVDs, used RWs.) then remove Norton and install the beta. When done I'd restore the image. Not once did it fail.

I probably should use more than one imaging package but just don't see the need anymore. Even if my Windows image totally failed it is not a big deal. I am semi-retired and, often, have more time than I know what to do with. My data images are redundant meaning that I have images on my laptop for Win 7 and 8.1 both containing the data partition. The desktop also has the data partition contained in the Win 7 imaging as it did with the 8.1 imaging. The data partition is also synced between the laptop and desktop. The most important data, websites and photos are also on-line as the actual sites and the most important photos are included in my two galleries. Even with the destruction of everything local I can still download these things.

While I have done it, and it is obviously MUCH faster, I don't really like the idea of doing images to an internal drive. While I have never (knock on wood) had an infection more serious than a PUP there are other factors to consider. One such consideration would be a power surge. Sigh, no, I still have not gotten my UPS. I have always thought that it would be a decent idea to mount a switch on the case (talking desktop only) that would physically disconnect the backup drive from power. I would think that to do it properly would take a 5-throw switch ( see diagram below for the pin-out) Don't really know if I'd need to 'switch' the data cable but, obviously, for the best protection, it should probably be done. It would sure be easier today with SATA than it would have been with PATA. I haven't yet looked at a pin-out for a SATA data cable.
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