Register    Login    Search    Articles & downloads     Who We Are    Donate    Jaylach Free Sites

Board index » Technical Forums » Microsoft Windows




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:36 pm 
Offline
Resident Geekazoid Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 9438
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
OK, I THINK I have this figured out. There are two ways to go depending on where your system hardware fails. If you are able to enable TPM 2.0 or TPM 1.2 (Trusted Platform Module) and Secure Boot in your BIOS you can use the first method to do an upgrade install from Windows 10. If your system does not have TPM and/or Secure Boot you will need to do a clean install using the second method. The following two methods will only deal with the following hardware failures:
  • You do not have a system that supports TPM version 1.2 or greater for an upgrade install or no TPM at all for a clean install.
  • You do not have a system that supports Secure Boot. This will only work for a clean install.
  • Your system has a CPU that is unsupported. This works with an upgrade install and SHOULD work for a clean install but this I have not personally proven.

Method #1. Doing an upgrade install from Windows 10.
This will only work on systems that fail on the CPU and has, at least, TPM 1.2 and Secure Boot.
(I have not personally proven the TPM 1.2 aspect.)
Warning!!! You do this at your own risk as it involves a registry addition that could damage your system if not done correctly.

The easiest way to do the upgrade from Windows 10 if you have the ability for Secure Boot, at least TPM 1.2 and your CPU fails is to just download the following registry hack file and enable. The manual method to apply this hack is included in 'Hack #1' within 'Method #2'.
https://jaylach.com/downloads/Enable-Unsupported-Upgrades.zip
You could do this hack manually, but that increases the potential risks. After applying the hack just go ahead and do the upgrade. As long as you have TPM 1.2 and Secure Boot this should work.

Method #2. Doing a clean install of Windows 11.
This will include three possible registry hacks that will be applied during the Windows 11 install.
You should attempt a clean install before going on with this and then only apply the needed hacks.
There is not much of any risk doing these hacks as they apply to the installer only.
Since you are doing a clean install there is no risk of damaging an existing Windows install.


OK, let's see what hacks are needed. Attempt a clean install and see if there are any failures as to supported hardware. If there are no failures the install will just go on without any hacks being needed. If this is the case you have no need for this article. If you come up with any of the following three failures continue reading. At this time I have no solution for other hardware failures.
  • CPU is not supported; hack #1: This will bypass the CPU check and is also reported to allow TPM 1.2 instead of needing TPM 2.0. Unfortunately I don't have a system with TPM 1.2 so I cannot actively tested this aspect.
  • Your system has no TPM at all; hack #2: This will allow a clean install on a system that has no TPM ability.
  • Your system does not allow for Secure Boot; hack #3: This will allow a clean install of Windows 11 on a system that does not support Secure Boot.

So you tried a clean install and it failed due to unsupported hardware on any of the above three items. On a clean install you will get at least far enough to see the option for a custom install. This is the option you will want to select so that you can do the installer registry hacks. You MUST select to do a custom install to have this all work.


So you now know what is needed as to hacks but you still need to start the clean install before you can apply any of the hacks. After starting the install let it go to the point where you get the failures then click the 'back arrow' located in the upper left. Apply the needed hacks and then continue with the install.

The hacks!
First thing is that you have to be able to apply the hacks. After clicking the back arrow when setup fails due to one of the issues, hold the 'SHIFT' key and then hit 'F10'. This will open the installer's Command Prompt. Now type in "regedit" without the quotes and you will be in the installers registry where we can now apply the needed hacks.

Here are the hacks. Since we are in the installer's registry editor I suggest that all of the needed hacks be applied at the same time.

  • Hack #1, CPU fails and/or you only have TPM 1.2
    1. In the left pane of the registry editor navigate to the following section:
      HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\Setup\MoSetup
    2. Right-click in the right pane on MoSetup, select New > DWORD (32-bit) Value, and enter the following text as the name: AllowUpgradesWithUnsupportedTPMOrCPU
    3. Double-click the “AllowUpgradesWithUnsupportedTPMOrCPU” and set the value to “1”, and click “OK.”
    4. Close both the registry editor and the command prompt and continue with the Windows install.

  • Hack #2, No TPM at all or you don't want to enable.
    1. In the left pane of the registry editor navigate to the following section:
      HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\Setup
    2. Right-click in the right pane on MoSetup, select New > DWORD (32-bit) Value, and enter the following text as the name: BypassTPMCheck
    3. Double-click the “BypassTPMCheck” and set the value to “1”, and click “OK.”
    4. Close both the registry editor and the command prompt and continue with the Windows install.

  • Hack #3, No Secure Boot or you don't want to enable.
    1. In the left pane of the registry editor navigate to the following section:
      HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\Setup
    2. Right-click in the right pane on MoSetup, select New > DWORD (32-bit) Value, and enter the following text as the name: BypassSecureBootCheck
    3. Double-click the “BypassSecureBootCheck” and set the value to “1”, and click “OK.”
    4. Close both the registry editor and the command prompt and continue with the Windows install.

_________________
Image
Free sites from jaylach.com
I NEVER forget... I just remember late.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 7:32 pm 
Offline
welcoming committee
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:13 pm
Posts: 1723
Location: Dunedin, Alba.
As many here will know due to ill health i never really managed to get a stable install of Win10 working on my Win7 PC, now with Win10 nearing end of life in a year or so i'm thinking i might as well just skip that version and go straight to Win11.

The question now is how to go about that, as noted by Jay above there are manual hacks you can do to circumvent some of the unsupported hardware 'failures' that Win11 might throw up.

In my case those will likely be:

1. I know my CPU isn't supported.
2. I know for certain my BIOS does not support TPM 2.0 and i'm uncertain about TPM 1.2.
3. My GPU (on Win7) currently does not a have WDDM 2.0 driver installed but Nvidia do have a WDDM 2.0 capable driver for my GPU specifically for Win11 that has WDDM 2.0 enabled so i'm presuming that's semantic to when i should install that driver.
4. The only question mark that remains is whether or not the DualBIOS on my Gigabyte motherboard supports Secure Boot or not.

cf: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11-specifications

1 & 2 should be easy enough to circumvent.
3 i won't know until i install Win10 because i can't run the Win11 health check tool until 10 is installed.
4 My understanding is that using the tool in the video below (Rufus) this shouldn't matter because i can disable that check as well?

My plan at present is, i have a spare 250GB SSD drive laying around because i ran out of Sata sockets on the motherboard, is to pull every drive and format the spare SSD, install Win10 and go from there to see what happens when i try to install Win11 using the following video and software as a guide:

Installing Windows 11 on Unsupported Hardware
https://youtu.be/UL_maCWM5bk

Normally i would never post a link to a video that suggests third party software to get around any Microsoft software pre-checks but it does feel like Microsoft have a hidden agenda these days to make it as difficult as possible to even try running their software so it would be interesting to know any thoughts on the above methods used.

The worst that can happen i suspect is it doesn't work and i have to pull the SSD and plug all the original ones back in.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 7:55 pm 
Offline
Resident Geekazoid Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 9438
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
If your failures are as I initially stated you don't need any third party software. Run the 11 installer and it will let you know the hardware issues.

Since you seem to intend to do a clean install on a different drive there is no need to install Windows 10 first nor do you need to install the driver you mentioned as there would be nothing to install it to.

The only reason to install Windows 10 first would be if you don't have a Windows 11 product key. If you don't have a Windows 10 product key the install of 10 MUST be clean. Install 10 but when it wants a product key select that you don't have one and continue with the install. When the install is done go to activation which will fail due to no product key; select to change product key and enter a valid Windows 7 key. The Windows 7 key MUST match the Win 10 version; if you install Win 10 Pro the Win 7 key MUST be for Pro or Ultimate. You should now be good to go to upgrade or clean install to Win 11. The reason you would need to install Win 10 first is to generate a digital license to allow Win 11 to activate.

It has been over a year and a half since I've done this so some of the above MAY be off a bit...

_________________
Image
Free sites from jaylach.com
I NEVER forget... I just remember late.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:10 pm 
Offline
welcoming committee
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:13 pm
Posts: 1723
Location: Dunedin, Alba.
I have valid Win7 and Win10 keys, all are Pro.

My only reason for installing 10 now is so i can run the tool that checks checks whether my system is 11 compliant or not... it doesn't run in 7.

I didn't really have any issues with Win10 but the brain fog meant i couldn't understand simple issues so i accidentally made them worse to the point i had to go back and abandon Win10, this will be my first look at Windows 11 and obviously a lot of time has passed since you posted so i was curious to know if there was a way to simplify your manual methods by bypassing them with 3rd party software... specifically if you'd ever come across 'rufus' which perked my interest.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:12 pm 
Offline
welcoming committee
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:13 pm
Posts: 1723
Location: Dunedin, Alba.
Doddie wrote:
My only reason for installing 10 now is so i can run the tool that checks checks whether my system is 11 compliant or not... it doesn't run in 7.

I should have added and if it is, where?


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:15 pm 
Offline
Resident Geekazoid Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 9438
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
Just running the Win 11 installer will tell you where the hardware fails.

_________________
Image
Free sites from jaylach.com
I NEVER forget... I just remember late.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:23 pm 
Offline
welcoming committee
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:13 pm
Posts: 1723
Location: Dunedin, Alba.
Given that i have the Win11 ISO that i need to burn to USB i was kind of hoping i could nip that bud before i got there which is the reason why i was asking if anyone had any experience with the 3rd party software... i.e to install and run the Win11 compatibilty tool on Win10 would have been interesting given i know my system will fail the Win11 checks anyway... i just don't know what exactly will fail.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:33 pm 
Offline
Resident Geekazoid Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 9438
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
You can try third party if you want but I never have and it isn't needed as the Win 11 installer will report failures in either a clean or upgrade install before removing any current OS.

BTW, is your BIOS UEFI? If not I have doubts that you will be able to install Win 11 in any case. Speaking of BIOS... Look under the security settings in your BIOS and you should see if you have TPM and or Safe Boot. If either or both are there enable, if not you will need hacks and a clean install. If both are there you should be able to do an upgrade with just the CPU hack. If I were to try this I'd use the spare 255? GB SSD you have and use that to try to be sure to not waste your current system drive.

_________________
Image
Free sites from jaylach.com
I NEVER forget... I just remember late.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:41 pm 
Offline
welcoming committee
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:13 pm
Posts: 1723
Location: Dunedin, Alba.
Its a dual BIOS so does support UEFI even though i have it disabled at the moment.

Going forward everything will be on my spare SSD with all other drives unplugged until i can be certain Win 11 will install... TPM and Safeboot are the big unknowns which is why i was asking about the 3rd pary software because from what i could see in the video it disabled the checks that you earlier posted about Safeboot etc.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:49 pm 
Offline
Resident Geekazoid Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 9438
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
Like I said... do as you want but I'd use the Win 11 installer to find hardware failures before I went to third party although I would think that the third party fixes are just automated registry hacks.

BTW, A lot of all this sounds like bootlegging but I don't consider it to be so as Microsoft knows about all this and continues to allow it. I mean the Win 11 installer allows you to manually enter registry hacks on a clean install and there is no reason to allow hacks except to install on unsupported hardware.

_________________
Image
Free sites from jaylach.com
I NEVER forget... I just remember late.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:57 pm 
Offline
welcoming committee
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:13 pm
Posts: 1723
Location: Dunedin, Alba.
As i said, but maybe didn't make clear... i want to install Win10 first to run the MS checker within Win10 that won't run in Win7 to find out exactly where my hardware issue might be becasue i know it will fall over when i try to install Win11.

The 3rd party software will then just be an easy method for bypassing those Win11 checks, without knowing where the failings are i won't know which options to bypass.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:07 pm 
Offline
Resident Geekazoid Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 9438
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
And I'm just saying that the Win 11 installer will tell you the failures without third party software. Sure, install Win 10 first but then run the Win 11 installer, or the MS checker, to see failures. I just have a hunch that the installer would be quicker but mayhaps not.

There is another consideration. Have you checked for the availability of device drivers for Win 10 and 11? As old as this system is it is iffy that you will find drivers for Win 10 but it is possible that the Win 10 install will have usable drivers. This is less likely with Win 11. Even if Win 11 installs the system won't be of much use if such things as the NIC is not functional although you could probably find drivers for the NIC on the NIC's manufacturer's site. Still there are devices such as video that could suffer.

_________________
Image
Free sites from jaylach.com
I NEVER forget... I just remember late.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:37 pm 
Offline
welcoming committee
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:13 pm
Posts: 1723
Location: Dunedin, Alba.
I'm more concerned with the hardware failures that Win11 throws up, i already know the software that Win10 doesn't support that i currently use and eventually i'm going to have to accept that and look for alternatives... likewise i'm confident that i can get Win11 compliant drivers for nearly every hardware device i have, albeit not from the motherboard wesite.

When i had Win10 dual booted with Win7 the big issue was i didn't have a stable system at all, with hindsight i now know that was due to a failing PSU but it took a long time for me to work that out due to the "brain damage" i was recovering from... and yes, that is exactly what i was living with.

While there may be one or two more software applications that are no longer supported in Win11 that were supported in Win7 and later Win10, i don't expect that will be a huge amount because from what i understand the core of Win10 & Win11 hasn't changed that much unlike in Win7 to Win10 or 11.

The whole point of me looking at going from Win7 straight to Win11 is to find out the easiest route to get there, knowing that Win11 will try and throw up some road blocks it's just a simple matter of finding the easiest route to get there in the knowledge that Win11 will try and make it as expensive as possible.

From all the "core" driver sources i've looked at so far (chipset, audio, graphics etc) all of them appear to have Win11 drivers available but the proof will be in getting Win11 installed so i can see for myself... worst case scenario i'll be stuck at Win10 but the logic for that makes no sense to me if the MS barriers are removed.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:51 pm 
Offline
welcoming committee
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:13 pm
Posts: 1723
Location: Dunedin, Alba.
jaylach wrote:
Sure, install Win 10 first but then run the Win 11 installer, or the MS checker, to see failures.

Not sure if you missed it but the 'MS checker' doesn't run in Win7 which is the main reason i was thinking of installing Win10 again... last time i had Win10 istalled Win11 wasn't available and neither was the checker for Win11.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:09 pm 
Offline
Resident Geekazoid Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 9438
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
Doddie wrote:
jaylach wrote:
Sure, install Win 10 first but then run the Win 11 installer, or the MS checker, to see failures.

Not sure if you missed it but the 'MS checker' doesn't run in Win7 which is the main reason i was thinking of installing Win10 again... last time i had Win10 istalled Win11 wasn't available and neither was the checker for Win11.

In my above quote I said "Sure, install Win 10 first...".

There may still be issues such as your UEFI BIOS not being current enough. Actually enabling the UEFI in the BIOS could mess up your Win 7 boot but that is usually solved by booting to Safe Mode then going back to normal.

_________________
Image
Free sites from jaylach.com
I NEVER forget... I just remember late.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:40 pm 
Offline
welcoming committee
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:13 pm
Posts: 1723
Location: Dunedin, Alba.
jaylach wrote:
There may still be issues such as your UEFI BIOS not being current enough. Actually enabling the UEFI in the BIOS could mess up your Win 7 boot but that is usually solved by booting to Safe Mode then going back to normal.

I'm not planning on dual booting again, last time i did that i was riddled with Long Covid and very aware that Win7 had reached end of life but the reality was i was in no position to do it. I tried and it caused all sorts of problems.

I'm in a much better place now so i'm pretty much playing catch up on what's happened over the last 2-3 years in the world of Windows... i guess you'd have to have lived in someones shoes like me to understand but it's like one day Win 7 was the latest and greatest, next day 10 was rolling out, years later 11 is here.... it's so weird how much of life i missed but i try not to dwell too much on that.

I've always been a stalwart that any data should never be on the installation partition and if it is you only have yourself to blame if it's then corrupted or the drive fails, so apart from when i did use a single partition many years ago (and it got currupted) i've always kept important data anywhere except my primary drive/partition.

To be honest i've never understood why UEFI is more secure than MBR but that's probably more down to me never finding a reliable simple source that explained it well.
At the end of the day all my drives are MBR/legacy (whatever the latter means?) and one way or another should be recoverable no matter whether the BIOS is set for UEFI or not (aside from external sources of course) so i've stuck with it.... i'm just not a fan of something new if there aren't clear and concise explanations that explain why the new normal should be normal.

When i transition this time from Win 7 to 11 (if indeed i can with my current hardware) it will be final and my boot SSD will be formatted and all software reinstalled to comply with Win11.

But first i need to find out what, if anything, will stop a Win11 install... and currently MS have decreed that only Win10 can do that hence why i want to install a standalone drive where i can install Win 10... that i can easily remove and go back to my current setup if need be.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:45 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:48 pm
Posts: 2946
Location: New Jersey
I just learned of an even easier way to bypass the requirements check for Windows 11 installation.
https://www.onmsft.com/news/this-simple-trick-allows-windows-11-installation-on-any-pc-bypassing-strict-system-requirements/

_________________
stephen boots
Microsoft MVP 2004 - 2020
"Life's always an adventure with computers!"


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:59 pm 
Offline
Resident Geekazoid Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 9438
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
sboots wrote:
I just learned of an even easier way to bypass the requirements check for Windows 11 installation.
https://www.onmsft.com/news/this-simple-trick-allows-windows-11-installation-on-any-pc-bypassing-strict-system-requirements/

Quite interesting. :)

_________________
Image
Free sites from jaylach.com
I NEVER forget... I just remember late.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 

Board index » Technical Forums » Microsoft Windows


Who is online

Registered users: No registered users

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:

Similar topics


Jump to:  

cron