have, been, using, keyscrambler, for, years, with, problems, but, recently, discovered, thanks, microsoft, tech, that, was, the, culprit, had, keeping, from, being, able, type, anything, into, edge, tried, everything, eventually, removing, which, solved, problem, test, reinstalled, and, still, works, should, has, not, blocked, typing, told, dont, need, windows, defender, malwarebytes, computer, correct, without,     i have been using keyscrambler for years with no problems but i recently discovered thanks to a microsoft tech that it was the culprit that had been keeping me from being able to type anything into edge he tried everything eventually removing keyscrambler which solved the problem as a test

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 Post subject: Is KeyScrambler Needed?
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:04 pm 
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I have been using KeyScrambler for years with no problems, but I recently discovered (thanks to a Microsoft tech) that it was the culprit that had been keeping me from being able to type anything into Edge. He tried everything, eventually removing KeyScrambler, which solved the problem. As a test, I reinstalled KeyScrambler and Edge still works as it should; it has not blocked my typing.

The tech told me that I don't need KeyScrambler in Windows 10 with Defender and Malwarebytes on my computer. Is he correct -- am I OK without KeyScrambler?

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:06 am 
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Who's to say, Gerry? I've never used it, or any program like it and I'm doing just fine.

But as I've said before, one's security is just fine - until it isn't.

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:40 am 
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Like Patty I can't say yes or no but also don't use any such program. KeyScrambler is an anti key logging package that encrypts your key strokes. It would seem to me that, if a key logger gets on your system, you probably also have other issues to deal with. On the other hand, if stuff does get on your system, it could possibly help.

If pressed for an answer I'd probably say to keep it if it does not affect system performance and it continues to behave with Edge.

Actually I decided to install and take a look. It does not seem intrusive and it is actually sort of cool seeing the encryption of the keystrokes in real time in the title bar if IE.

Now trying in Edge and it seems fine as was your re-install. The question is if it will remain OK if there is an update to Edge. Will have to wait and see about that.

This is a bit disappointing. I just tested in Word and, if it functions, it does not show that it is. If I'm going to have anti key logger installed I'd want it to work with any use of the keyboard, not just web browsers. Nope, just checked and Office is not included protection. At least not included in the free version, don't know about the Premium version. I would like to see it, at least, protect Outlook.

Following is a short list of apps that it shows as protecting. I am sure that it probably protects more but the following is what came up positive out of what I tested. I was a little surprised that Notpad was protected while WordPad was not.
Notepad
IE
Edge
Firefox

I think that will still keep it installed for a bit and play. ;)

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:18 am 
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Thanks, Patty and Jay.

Jay, I didn't realize that Office apps are not protected. It does work with Chrome also and I am using the free version. The pro version is $29.99 and provides "secured keystroke data in 150 standalone apps," and Outlook is one of them. The rest of Office is supported in their $44.99 Premium version.
http://www.qfxsoftware.com/applications.htm

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:55 am 
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Ya, I saw the version comparison. :)

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:43 pm 
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Interesting question you raise, gmfry. I played with KeyScrambler many years ago, liked it because it was unobtrusive, did not interfere with anything. I used the free version and again, a long time ago. I did not keep it because I felt that the best defense is keeping those Trojan keyloggers off your system in the first place. With all of my protection I thought, do I really need this? But today's nasties are so vicious and well constructed, I just don't know anymore. It is really a shame that the brilliant minds who construct these things have such dark hearts (or maybe they are just trying to feed hungry children, I don't know).

I might start playing around with KeyScrambler again even with all of my other defenses.
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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:54 pm 
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That's quite a price tag for a yearly subscription. :( Especially if you're doing other programs that are also yearly subscriptions. Not that I mind anyone making money on their products. But I would put the paid subscription (Premium), in this case, in the unaffordable category.

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:43 pm 
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MacDuffie wrote:
That's quite a price tag for a yearly subscription. ... in this case, in the unaffordable category.

Agreed. I looked for a page on their website that showed the difference between the programs. If i missed it, can anyone provide a link?
Thanks, Bill

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:51 pm 
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http://www.qfxsoftware.com/applications.htm

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:10 pm 
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A thought about keyscrambler and other programs of the type. If any keystroke software goes into operation that means you are already infected. And seeing what some of the new malware does you do not want that to happen. Beef up your security to keep malware out!!!


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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:02 pm 
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I agree Patty, I may play with the free version a bit but won't pay the price for Pro or Premium.

I'm not sure that I follow your meaning Pete. KeyScrambler is not intended to remove or even let you know that a key logger is present. Its purpose is to just encrypt key strokes at the keyboard driver level then unencrypt when the destination app is reached. It will only unencrypt to the app in focus. KeyScrambler runs and encrypts whether you are infected or not.

So far my bottom line opinion is that it is not a bad idea but not worth the price for the Premium version. Still I MAY leave the free version on my system, time will tell. At least the free version works with standard browsers which is where most people are going to be entering passwords. I opened Task Manager/Performance and did not see any processor spikes while using this so I doubt that it really has any impact on system performance. In fact my AMD processor is 'throttled' to perform at the optimal speed for what is going on. While monitoring I never reached full processor speed while also running other apps. My processor is rated at 3.66 GHz. and Task Manager, during my test, only averaged ~2.9 GHz.. Keep in in mind that my test was nothing conclusive. It was just to satisfy myself. Sorry for the tech stuff but impact on system performance is important to me.

Gerry, If you like the thing and everything continues to run well I'd say to keep using. Unless you have a pretty weak system I don't think that this package will affect system performance in any way that will be seen. Even the Premium version will not cover any and all apps on the system. Hey, as Acadia might say, it is about layers. The free version adds another layer to your web browser.

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:31 pm 
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jaylach wrote:
...
I'm not sure that I follow your meaning Pete. KeyScrambler is not intended to remove or even let you know that a key logger is present. Its purpose is to just encrypt key strokes at the keyboard driver level then unencrypt when the destination app is reached...

Peter, Jay is right. KeyScrambler does not go into operation once you are infected, it is ALWAYS in operation, constantly scrambling your typing. Should you get infected, all the hacker sees is a miss-mash of mess.

Thanks for that link, Patty.

Acadia

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:45 pm 
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Acadia wrote:
jaylach wrote:
...
I'm not sure that I follow your meaning Pete. KeyScrambler is not intended to remove or even let you know that a key logger is present. Its purpose is to just encrypt key strokes at the keyboard driver level then unencrypt when the destination app is reached...

Peter, Jay is right. KeyScrambler does not go into operation once you are infected, it is ALWAYS in operation, constantly scrambling your typing. Should you get infected, all the hacker sees is a miss-mash of mess.

Thanks for that link, Patty.

Acadia


If it's that expensive Hitman Pro Alert might be a better buy. Whole lot of other protection plus key stroke encryption


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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:58 pm 
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Peter2150 wrote:
Acadia wrote:
jaylach wrote:
...
I'm not sure that I follow your meaning Pete. KeyScrambler is not intended to remove or even let you know that a key logger is present. Its purpose is to just encrypt key strokes at the keyboard driver level then unencrypt when the destination app is reached...

Peter, Jay is right. KeyScrambler does not go into operation once you are infected, it is ALWAYS in operation, constantly scrambling your typing. Should you get infected, all the hacker sees is a miss-mash of mess.

Thanks for that link, Patty.

Acadia


If it's that expensive Hitman Pro Alert might be a better buy. Whole lot of other protection plus key stroke encryption

So please expand again. Earlier in this thread you stated that these types of programs only did things when you were already infected. Since this is your experience why would I expect other from Hit Man Pro as I'm sure you have tested and, I'm sure, your initial opinion would have had this testing in consideration. :dunno:

<edit>
Actually Pete, after just re-reading the above, it could come across like I'm coming down. That is not the case at all. I'm really just curious as to if you have specific insight on the key protection within Hitman or if is strictly due to the cost...

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 Post Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:56 am 
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Here is a recent review that I found about Keyscrambler:
http://www.toptenreviews.com/software/p ... er-review/

In brief, the program is great at scrambling but does nothing else. It is lowly rated only because of that fact; the other programs also hunt and detect keyloggers that may ALREADY be on your system. This is probably what Peter meant when he mentioned HitmanPro Alert.

In my case, if I want key-scrambling type software, I will probably want something simple and good at what it does, like KeyScrambler. Quite frankly, I don't know how ANYTHING could get past Sandboxie and ShadowDefender. And if did, then I've got four, that's right four, scanners waiting to kill it (2 blacklisting programs and two whitelisting programs). And yes, all four scanners play VERY nicely together. So in my case, maybe not yours depending upon what else you have on your system, I would shoot for a simple program like KeyScrambler; I feel that I simply do not need another scanner. For those who don't have as many scanners, I have heard very good things about HitmanPro Alert.

EDIT: here is another review from someone who not only liked KS, but found that the free version was enough for him:
http://www.technorms.com/830/protect-yo ... yscrambler

Acadia

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 Post Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:46 pm 
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I would agree Acadia on KeyScrambler probably being sufficient in most cases. After all how often does one type their on-line banking log on in a text document? ;)

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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:13 am 
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Remember even for browsers all you are doing is encrypting, or scrambling between the keyboard, and the browser.

Problem is the latest banking trojans no longer worry about intercepting from the keyboard. They are using new techniques like AtomBombing to inject into the browser memory, and the look for strings like username, and capture what they need right there.

Some of these new trojans are well designed to avoid AV's and traditional software. What is rapidly coming to the fore is malware that transfers around the system memory only.


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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:30 am 
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Heh, Peter, I may know where you are going with this, not sure. I believe there is one program that will protect us from all of this super, new nasty stuff, correct? Correct me if I am wrong. If the program that you might name is the one that I think you might, that is, in my opinion, advanced stuff and maybe this thread should be moved to the Advanced forum. Yes, I know, if you REALLY want protection then you must stop being a newbie and learn. BUT, that one particular program is the ONLY security program that I ever removed because I simply could not wrap my mind around it. I have removed many a security program because I stopped liking it or found something better, but that program is only one I ever removed because I just did not understand it. I know it works, read too many good things about it.

Again, if I am wrong, sorry. If on the other hand you are saying NOTHING that you know of can protect us from this new generation of nasties ... :nbite: At least most banks will reimburse you if someone hacks your account and steals money, but who wants to go thru all that hassle.
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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:15 pm 
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Acadia you are right, but I'll continue in the other thread. But my opinion here is that KeyScrambler is no longer effective for protection. It's whole basis is that a keylogger will detected it. Once a document is type it's gone, same is true on a web site.

Problem is like I've stated. You can do longer depend on anti keyloggers. Malware no longer just installs nicely and behaves nicely. It may simply install/inject into the browser and collect what it wants directly from browser memory.

Also remember if an anti keylogger detects something it means you are already infected!!!


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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:52 pm 
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If I'm getting this right, what is being missed here is that KeyScrambler is NOT an anti-keylogger! It isn't meant to detect keyloggers, nor to remove them, nor to prevent them from working. KeyScrambler is quite simply an encrypter of keystrokes. That's all. I don't see how that could hurt. I don't see how that could be "uneffective." Uneffective at what? Encrypting your keystrokes?

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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:21 pm 
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Uneffective at protecting anything. So you encrypt they keystrokes going to a word doc. So what. If it encrypted an email, the recipient could decrypt that would serve to protect the communication, but to encrypt between the keyboard an the software on your computer does nothing. Only gain is hopefully you will buy Key Scrambler and they will make money.


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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:02 pm 
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I believe we are talking about encrypting keystrokes entered in browser. The recipient would be a bank or some other site receiving a password, or in the address bar. Let's assume one does not have a key logger on the system. Is there any benefit in this case? I'm not trying to be difficult, Peter, but to really break this down and understand what the situation is.

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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:49 pm 
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Hi Patty

Remember anything that encrypts keystokes does so at the keyboard input. When it gets to your browser the keystrokes have to be decrypted at the point of entering the browser so the browser sends it out plain text. The only gain at all would be if the keystrokes could be captured off your computer. So if there is no keylogger it is a useless feature.

And the point today is even if you had an anti keylogger, its an easy bybass as today trojans can steal stuff directly from the browser memory.

Does this make any sense.


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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:50 pm 
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I would agree that the benefit is probably not large but the negative is zero unless one considers a user gaining a false sense of invincibility. Still, since I see no negative as to system performance, I see no harm in using KeyScrambler free version. At least for a while I'll leave it installed if for no other reason that I get a minor kick out seeing to what it changed my keystrokes. :mrgreen:

It was my fault that 'protecting' strokes to Word/Excel even came up. I made a statement along the lines of it would be nice if it worked with Word but later recinded that as it isn't needed in normal situations. The free version handles browsers and nothing else and that is fine. As to the company making money that is hardly true with the free version except for the fact that some may be tempted to get a paid version if they like the free version.

Just to play a bit of the devil's advocate... :mrgreen:
Pete wrote:
The only gain at all would be if the keystrokes could be captured off your computer. So if there is no keylogger it is a useless feature.

Could it not also be said that, if nothing happens to my system, an image backup is a useless feature? Or, if I never get an infection, my anti virus is a useless feature? Just teasing ya Pete. ;)

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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:35 pm 
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jaylach wrote:
I would agree that the benefit is probably not large but the negative is zero unless one considers a user gaining a false sense of invincibility. Still, since I see no negative as to system performance, I see no harm in using KeyScrambler free version. At least for a while I'll leave it installed if for no other reason that I get a minor kick out seeing to what it changed my keystrokes. :mrgreen:

It was my fault that 'protecting' strokes to Word/Excel even came up. I made a statement along the lines of it would be nice if it worked with Word but later recinded that as it isn't needed in normal situations. The free version handles browsers and nothing else and that is fine. As to the company making money that is hardly true with the free version except for the fact that some may be tempted to get a paid version if they like the free version.

Just to play a bit of the devil's advocate... :mrgreen:
Pete wrote:
The only gain at all would be if the keystrokes could be captured off your computer. So if there is no keylogger it is a useless feature.

Could it not also be said that, if nothing happens to my system, an image backup is a useless feature? Or, if I never get an infection, my anti virus is a useless feature? Just teasing ya Pete. ;)


Hey if it's entertainment that has value, although it does raise a couple of questions :lol:

Imaging is different in that it has several different purposes, and it isn't used nearly enough. I base that on the number of calls for help in some of the forums that would be easily solved with a restore if the user had something to restore.

The anti virus may be another issue. Mine has become the least useful protection, compared to other

But I try and keep my system clean and get rid of un needed stuff.


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