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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:27 pm 
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I just don't get it! I was reading an article earlier today about people hating Edge and wanting to uninstall. After reading I did a couple of searches to confirm that there really was a bit of an outcry on this and, apparently from search results, there is.

I can understand some people not liking Edge but just set another browser as the default, unpin the icon from the Task Bar and forget about it. As to myself I use Firefox for normal browsing and it is the default. I do use Edge for streaming cable, baseball and football.

What I don't get is why it is such a big deal to so many that you cannot uninstall Edge in a conventional manner. Shoot, you have never been able to uninstall an included browser from Windows so why the fuss over Edge and not Internet Explorer? Personally I think that many of the complaints come from people that are just looking for something to complain about. :dunno:

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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:21 pm 
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I agree about the complainers -- some people just need to complain. ;-) I personally use Edge almost exclusively now that it is using the Chromium engine. My only issue with it is that I need to spend some time managing my favorites. When it switched from legacy Edge to new Edge it appears to have imported my Google Chrome favorites and the legacy Edge favorites *and* I sync between devices, so there's a mess of duplicates and old dead favorites I should have cleaned up ages ago. It is mostly my fault that the mess exists and it is still completely usable, so I continue to procrastinate... :-P

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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:38 pm 
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My only real complaint with Edge is that I have never figured out a way to enable a Menu Bar which is why I Use Firefox as my default. It is more of my being used to using the Menu Bar than anything. I don't get why Microsoft seems to have removed the ability to have this. I DO use Edge for most of my streaming and it does it quite well. LOL! Actually, when I launch Edge, my home page/s are three tabs. The tabs are my baseball and football streams along with Spectrum Cable streaming. When I say Menu Bar here is what I mean. It is the ease of access to Favorites/Bookmarks that I miss with Edge.

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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:36 pm 
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Yes, no menu bar in Edge. Everything is via the 3 dots over to the right. I prefer the menu bar, but am now used to the 3 dot method.

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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:39 pm 
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sboots wrote:
Yes, no menu bar in Edge. Everything is via the 3 dots over to the right. I prefer the menu bar, but am now used to the 3 dot method.

I'm sure, if I bothered, I could get used to using Edge as default but I prefer to stick with the menu bar in Firefox for Favorites and such.

To be honest, in Edge, you don't even need to use the hamburger menu (three dots) for favorites as there is a button to go directly to the Favorites (image below). I still don't like this aspect though. In Edge imported favorites always come up as a closed folder which must be opened. Not a big deal but, also, not convenient.

Don't get me wrong as I'm really not, in any way, bashing Edge. I think it is an excellent browser and, as said before, I use it for most of my streaming. I'm just an old dog that doesn't want to learn new tricks. :mrgreen: Shoot, I started with Netscape as my browser. LOL! Remember that browser? What was it, Windows 95/98/2000 era? I just don't see any need to change what has worked for me for many years. :) Anyway it would seem that Firefox is the result of Netscape so I've been using the danged thing for much too long to want to learn new stuff when what I already use works just fine. :)
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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:54 pm 
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Just to add to the above... DUH! :mrgreen: It dawned on me to drag my imported favorites to outside of the imported folder and the favorites button now shows as I would want. Still I think that I prefer the Menu Bar. ;)

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 Post Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:48 am 
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I have the Favorites bar showing and the Other Favorites folder showing. All my links are in the Other Favorites Folder so I just click that to get to them.


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 Post Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:08 am 
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dvair wrote:
I have the Favorites bar showing and the Other Favorites folder showing. All my links are in the Other Favorites Folder so I just click that to get to them.

Regardless of the browser I've never liked using a Favorites Bar. Nor do I use any Tool Bars. To me these things just waste screen space that could be used by actual content. Again this is just mostly habit as my current screens are large enough to handle such things but I just don't really have an interest in such things. You have to remember that, when I started using the net, 800X600 screen resolution was really high end. Shoot, I go far enough back to where a screen resolution of 640X480 was the norm. LOL! Just had to love those huge CRT monitors.

As to 'Tool Bars' I DO have another issue and always recommend that they not be used. They are usually poorly written using a lot of the system resources and most constantly 'call home' reporting everything that you do.

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 Post Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:01 am 
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Yeah, I don't understand the complaining either. Even if you want to use Firefox (like me) or Chrome or whatever, you still need a browser on a brand new pc so you can go out and get those others. Also, it is always nice to have a backup browser for those rare sites that don't work right with your staple.

I have been playing with Edge for quite some time having downloaded the Chrome based. I really like the Application Guard which you have to activate. Have you folks been reading the reviews and articles about the Chrome based Edge? Everybody, and I do mean just about EVERYBODY, loves it. Among other things, almost everyone agrees that it is faster than even Chrome.
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 Post Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:02 pm 
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I started using Edge when it first came out and use it now it is incorporated with Chrome but I've noticed just lately it is slow to open, not sure if it was after an update or not but I still like the browser. I used to have Chrome as my default before it went with Edge but there are a couple of games I play on Facebook and one of them did't play well in Chrome but was perfect in Edge so I just stuck with it.

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 Post Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:26 pm 
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Gosh, this thread is taking me back and testing the old grey matter! :lol:

A few weeks ago Window Update offered me Edge even though i thought Windows 7 had reached end of life and would never get any further updates of any kind? :dunno:

I installed it out of curiosity and found as already mentioned there was no Menu Bar, or option to have one.

It remains installed but i've found i miss the Menu Bar so much that that's likely all it ever be, installed as menu item in my Start Menu.

Acadia raises an interesting point about needing a pre-installed browser:
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...you still need a browser on a brand new pc so you can go out and get those others...


That's not strictly true, in the EU we very nearly had an "E" version of Windows 7 that would have had Internet Explorer stripped out of Windows 7, but at the 'last minute' Microsoft came to a compromise with the EU Commission and enabled a "Browser Choice" screen during setup... or if Windows 7 was already installed a choice screen that would be given via a Windows Update at a later stage.

The following links (from 2009 & 2010 respectively) go into greater detail, the former never happened as far as i know, but the latter certainly did...:

Windows 7 E: Your questions answered
Quote:
The penny has finally dropped on Windows 7 pricing here in Europe. The short version is that we're getting our own European version (Windows 7 E), of Microsoft's new operating system, at a selection of discount prices, depending on when you buy it.

Let's get one thing straight from the start: if you're in Europe, Microsoft has decreed you can't upgrade from your existing version of Windows to 7 E. You'll have to install 7 E from scratch, wiping out your current version and all your existing data.

Even though there's no upgrade version and you won't actually be upgrading, Microsoft has confused the issue by referring to the pricing as an 'upgrade price'. Confused? We don't blame you, as we certainly were. To make things clearer, we'll call it 'switching' to 7 E instead of 'upgrading'. Questions? Fire away!
Windows 7

I'm in Europe. What version of Windows will I get?
You'll get Windows 7 E: Windows 7 but without Internet Explorer.

Why no IE?
Microsoft has dropped IE from the OS in response to regulators' concerns over Microsoft's monopoly in the Web browser market. To make things more confusing, there's also a version called Windows 7 N that doesn't include Windows Media Player, for similar reasons. Apart from the missing programs, 7 E and 7 N are identical to the Windows 7 shipped to the rest of the world.

Source: https://www.cnet.com/news/windows-7-e-your-questions-answered/

Antitrust: Commission welcomes Microsoft's roll-out of web browser choice:
Quote:
The European Commission welcomes the implementation by Microsoft of its commitment to give consumers in the European Union the opportunity to choose from a variety of browsers to access and surf the Internet. From the beginning of March, users of Windows PCs who have Internet Explorer as default web browser are being provided with a browser Choice Screen, designed to give them an effective and unbiased choice between their default and competing web browsers. This should ensure competition on the merits and allow consumers to benefit from technical developments and innovation both on the web browser market and on related markets, such as web-based applications.

Competition Commissioner Joaquin Almunia said: " Web browsers are the gateway to the internet. Giving consumers the possibility to switch or try a browser other than that included in Windows will bring more competition and innovation in this important area to the benefit of European internet users. More competition between web browsers should also boost the use of open web standards which is critical for the further development of an open internet."

Source: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_10_216

For the record, i too don't understand why people would complain about not being unable to uninstall Edge, given how bloated Windows is these days the drive space Edge uses must be tiny in comparison... maybe this is a new conspiracy theory i need to research... Edge knows what i would type and where i went if i'd used it, even though i haven't??


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 Post Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:18 pm 
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Hmmm, How would you get a browser if not included? Of course the easy answer would be to download the installer with another system but where did that system get a browser? :mrgreen:

The only thing that I could really see is to have a list of all the browsers out there where the user can choose what they want during the Windows install but doesn't really seem practical to me.

Still I would think that at least the core of Edge would still need to be present if Edge is used by the system the same as was Internet Explorer. Internet Explorer wasn't/isn't just a browser. Near as I can understand many web and local apps rely on Internet Explorer code even if another browser is being used. The thing is that you don't hardly program apps from scratch anymore. A lot of it is making API Callsto code that is already there. This MAY be why Internet Explorer is still included in current versions of Windows 10. Microsoft definitely does not want you to use Internet Explorer yet it is still there. If the code wasn't needed why would Microsoft not just remove it? I can't say that I'm 100% correct on this but it seems to make sense.

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 Post Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:39 pm 
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jaylach wrote:
The only thing that I could really see is to have a list of all the browsers out there where the user can choose what they want during the Windows install but doesn't really seem practical to me.

That is exactly what happened with Windows 7 after the EU ruling if you lived in the EU and tried to install/re-install (after a format) Windows 7... assuming of course you applied the option to let Window 7 check for upgrades during the setup process.

Presumably it worked that way because MS would pick up an EU IP address and direct the dowload of the Browser Choice update?

Whether or not Microsoft claim that Internet Explorer is integral or not to Windows 7, the fact remains that Microsoft had a version of Windows 7 ready for release in EU countries where IE was removed is fact.

How it would have run and what if any complications that would have caused is moot, because afaik it was never released, or leaked.


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 Post Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:50 pm 
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Fwiw, Microsoft once also claimed that Media Player was integral to Windows, yet we had... ;)

https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/help/11529/what-is-a-windows-7-n-edition


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 Post Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:07 pm 
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Doddie wrote:
jaylach wrote:
The only thing that I could really see is to have a list of all the browsers out there where the user can choose what they want during the Windows install but doesn't really seem practical to me.

That is exactly what happened with Windows 7 after the EU ruling if you lived in the EU and tried to install/re-install (after a format) Windows 7... assuming of course you applied the option to let Window 7 check for upgrades during the setup process.

Presumably it worked that way because MS would pick up an EU IP address and direct the dowload of the Browser Choice update?

Whether or not Microsoft claim that Internet Explorer is integral or not to Windows 7, the fact remains that Microsoft had a version of Windows 7 ready for release in EU countries where IE was removed is fact.

How it would have run and what if any complications that would have caused is moot, because afaik it was never released, or leaked.

I would have to guess that even though Internet Explorer would have been removed as an active browser the API Call routines would have remained.

Actually, in earlier versions of Windows 10, Edge could be uninstalled via Power Shell but it tended to cause system instability. I think that the ability to uninstall Edge ended sometime in 2018. The Power Shell removal causing issues would tend to back the thought of other apps relying on the involved code.

Apparently this no longer works but the following link gives the old Power Shell instructions. Keep in mind that, even if it does still work, it will probably cause instability on the system.
https://www.drivereasy.com/knowledge/how-to-remove-microsoft-edge-from-windows-10-solved/#:~:text=1%20Press%20the%20Window%20icon%20%2B%20X%20on,until%20the%20process%20is%20completed.%20More%20items...%20

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 Post Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:04 pm 
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jaylach wrote:
Actually, in earlier versions of Windows 10, Edge could be uninstalled via Power Shell but it tended to cause system instability. I think that the ability to uninstall Edge ended sometime in 2018. The Power Shell removal causing issues would tend to back the thought of other apps relying on the involved code.

Fwiw, I no longer believe a word that Microsoft say about their browsers being integral to any operating system.

It wasn't so long ago that a beta version of Edge was available for Windows 7 only for it to pulled because Microsoft said Windows 7 was no longer compatible with it... yet only weeks after after Windows 7 reached end of life Microsoft released an out of life update with the option to install it.. go figure.


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 Post Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:48 pm 
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Doddie wrote:
Fwiw, I no longer believe a word that Microsoft say about their browsers being integral to any operating system.

..... yet only weeks after after Windows 7 reached end of life Microsoft released an out of life update with the option to install it.. go figure.

As to the first line above I would think that when it was possible to remove Edge in Windows 10, several builds ago, doing so almost always caused system stability issues would tend to indicate that the API code associated with the browser is indeed needed for other apps. Can I totally prove this? No I can't but removing causing stability issues would tend indicate an association between the root browser code and other apps.

As to the second part of the above quote Microsoft has done this before. Two years after Windows XP reached End Of Life they put out a patch to fix a security flaw that was considered a drastic danger. I may be wrong but figure that the Windows 7 Update to install the Chrome based Edge was not actually triggered by the OS but by Internet Explorer as IE had also reached its end of life.

It also must be remembered that we are basically talking about Windows 10 and Edge which has nothing to do with Windows 7. Yes, IE can be part of the equation but is not really part of the discussion except for examples of code association.

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 Post Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:30 pm 
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I've just had a look at my retail Windows 7 box for info, it came with Internet Explorer 8 and was Home Premium. It had 2 CDs, one for 32 bit and 1 for the 64 bit version and if I remember correctly I bought it while it was on offer to introduce the new OS version.

I think it was my retail version of XP that came via Microsoft and a friend.

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 Post Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:32 pm 
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Jay wrote:
It also must be remembered that we are basically talking about Windows 10 and Edge which has nothing to do with Windows 7. Yes, IE can be part of the equation but is not really part of the discussion except for examples of code association.

I just re-read the above part of my last post and realized that it may come across as censuring the references to Windows 7. This was totally not my intention. Sure, the Chrome based Edge is available in Windows 7 but it is an added install, not a part of the OS build. This just makes it a bit different than Edge in Windows 10. Sorry if the above quote made it seem like censuring the Windows 7 aspect. Again, that was not my intent.

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