A widowed friend called and said her 5-year old Dell desktop computer running Windows 10 suddenly wouldn’t start. In directing her over the phone, we saw that she had two hard drives installed (SATA 1 and SATA 2). We also went into the boot device configuration of CMOS, and sure enough booting from a hard drive was not an option. I then had her run the Dell Diagnostics and it showed a 0141 error code, which according to Dell means hard disk failure such that the computer can’t access the operating system.

Now to my first question. Is there any way I can use a Windows Repair Disk to access the system to see what is on that SATA 2 hard drive? My friend has no idea what is on this second drive, and backup is a foreign word to her. I’m hoping that her husband had set up the computer to do some type of automated backup on this second hard drive.

Second question….Is there any way I can direct her over the phone as to how to make sure that the primary drive is indeed faulty? She is not capable of opening the tower to check cables & connections. I don't live very close, and right now I am instructing her over the phone (which is going reasonably well).

Thanks in advance……..

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

Possibly but I would not go that way as I'd use a Linux live media to browse the drive. Here are some instructions.
https://www.fosslinux.com/274/how-to-create-linux-mint-live-usb-drive-on-windows.htm


I believe that the above Linux live media would allow you to do that.

Of course you could also just install Windows 10 as a clean install on the drive in question but that would kill anything on the drive. If the install fails you can be pretty sure that the drive is messed up.

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Hey BB, There is a free app called GParted that may help you check the drive but it can be a bit complicated. Still may be worth a look.
https://gparted.org/

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If you are comfortable with the command prompt and the old DOS commands, you can boot from a Windows Recovery disc. I don't know that I'd be trying to walk someone through that over the phone, though!

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stephen boots
Microsoft MVP 2004 - 2020
"Life's always an adventure with computers!"

Thanks, Jay, but these methods are too complicated for me to instruct over the phone. My friend has a laptop running Win 10, so I could easily have her create a Repair Disk that I was hoping would work. She also has a Win 10 installation disk.

But using Rufus/Linux or Partition Master would be out of the question without me being there.

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

Steve, I get confused........is a Recovery Disk the same as a Repair Disk? If not, how do you create a Recovery Disk?

I thought a walk through with a Repair Disk would be a straight-forward thing. No?

EDIT: Spelling error

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

I believe that the Windows 10 install media would do pretty much the same as a recovery/repair disk but still might be best to create a recovery/repair disk. I THINK that the recovery/install media still includes the option for startup repair which sometimes has to be run a few times.

Bottom line though is that, if the Dell Diagnostics reports a failed drive, it probably is.

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They are not quite the same thing. I did, however, mean the Repair Disc. A System Recovery Drive is created from the PC that it will be used on and will be a USB device that you would boot from. A System Repair Disc is the generic CD/DVD that can be used on any system to attempt to repair Windows. Sorry for using the wrong terminology!

If you were simply looking to assist someone in using the Repair Disc to try to fix Windows, it is not hard to explain. In this case, though, you can't repair anything. You are looking to boot from the CD/DVD and then see the other Hard Drive contents.

Once the system boots from the Repair Disc, you are presented with a few options. The primary ones are Refresh and Reset which won't do any good with a dead drive. To see the other drive you would select Advanced options and Command Prompt from the Advanced options menu/screen. You will be met with a black screen and a good old fashioned Command Prompt (It might be another letter than C:\ as it will be the drive letter assigned to the CD\DVD drive that you booted from):
C:\>
At that prompt you can enter commands. You are looking to see the contents of another drive, so first you would need to instruct the system to change to that drive. You would enter a drive letter followed by the colon and backslash and then hit enter. If the drive you entered doesn't exist, you will get an error. If it exists, the prompt will change to reflect that drive. For example, if you were at C:\> and typed D:\ and <enter>, your prompt would change to D:\> -- and you'd still be looking at a mostly black screen. Assuming D:\ is the drive letter for that hard disc you want to explore, you can now type DIR <enter> to get a listing of files and folders at the top level (root) of the drive. If there are many files and folders, the listing will scroll fast and you will only see the last entries on the screen followed by that blinking prompt. You can't see within the folders and navigation of the folder structure requires you to issue commands to change directories. The bottom line is that it is not something that I'd want to do over the phone with anyone!
Honestly, you are going to want to have access to the PC directly to be able to diagnose what's there.

Now back to your original questions... I believe that running the Dell diagnostics has already told you that the boot drive has failed, but you might try the Repair Disc and Startup repair to see what it says.

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stephen boots
Microsoft MVP 2004 - 2020
"Life's always an adventure with computers!"

Thanks for the detailed instructions, Steve. My primary goal is to try and see what is on the non-boot SATA 2 drive. I'm hoping that her husband either automated backups to that drive and/or stored some of their data files (e.g., photos) on that drive. With your instructions, I think I could walk her through that process.

As a check to see if the boot drive is indeed bad, I may do as Jay suggested and have her try and reinstall Windows 10 on that drive.

Oddly enough, she and I worked yesterday using screen photos from her iPhone. She took a photo of her CMOS screen and her Boot Menu screen and texted them to me, which I immediately received. I was then able to tell her how to move around in these menus and select items.

If none of this works and if she wants to get the computer to me, I would certainly work on it using the suggestions from you and Jay. She does have a friend who just might bring me the computer.....I already have an extra monitor, keyboard and mouse. I read someplace on the internet where it is possible that the drive is OK but that the SATA and/or power cables or connections are bad.

Thanks again Steve and Jay. The ball is now in her court as to what she wants to do next.

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

Well, I just talked with my friend about our new plans based on your suggestions. Her reaction was....."you know what, I've got to come to your city tomorrow so why don't I just bring you my computer if you don't mind working on it".

To which I replied...."Naw, I had really rather try this stuff over the phone".

Just kidding. Her computer should be at my house by noon tomorrow, so I will take it from there. Your suggestions will not go to waste, as I will be trying some of them. So thanks for educating me.

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

Good luck.

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I don't need luck when I have buddies like you and Steve to rely on!!

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

And you have the willingness to dive in and troubleshoot while learning, which counts for a whole lot! Luck is for finding that the solution is simpler than anticipated, though I have a feeling, based on a 5 year old drive in a Dell PC, that it is indeed a failed drive. What would be awesome is if her husband made a Recovery Disc, either via Windows or Dell utilities, and that your friend brings that along with the PC in case you do need to replace the drive for her as expected.

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stephen boots
Microsoft MVP 2004 - 2020
"Life's always an adventure with computers!"

bbarry, my hat off to your friend for getting Dell to build her a pc with two hard drives! She must have really twisted arms. Dell refused to build me one so I switched to Puget Systems and never looked back. I have now purchased three pcs from Puget, my last two each had three hard drives.
Bill

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The blazing evidence of immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution. -- Emerson

Talking about 2 drives, I was very surprised when I got this HP laptop. That had 2, a 128GB SSD and a 1TB HD with 8GB RAM

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Joan Archer
http://crossstitcher.webs.com

@Bill - my friend does not know if it has a second hard drive. I am only guessing based on the following error message she got when the computer wouldn't start:
No boot device available
Strike the F1 key to reboot, F2 to run the setup utility
SATA 1: Installed
SATA 2: Installed
SATA 3: None
SATA 4: None
Her husband possibly added a second drive after the Dell purchase.

@Steve - thanks for the encouragement. I figure since her computer is already broken, I can't do too much more damage. She is prepared to buy a new one if my efforts fail.

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

@ Bill - I just saw this on the Dell website:

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/desktop-computers/sr/desktops/dual-drive-ssd-hdd?appliedRefinements=23109

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

It is possible that the CD/DVD drive is a SATA device...

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stephen boots
Microsoft MVP 2004 - 2020
"Life's always an adventure with computers!"

Very interesting. They even have All-In-Ones with two drives, wish Apple did that with their iMacs.

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The blazing evidence of immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution. -- Emerson

Not just possible but probable.

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I should have considered that last night... I would agree that it is probable that there is a single hard drive and a single optical drive, hence the two SATA drives detected.

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stephen boots
Microsoft MVP 2004 - 2020
"Life's always an adventure with computers!"

Still it does raise a question as to possibilities. If the BIOS does not see the 'failed drive' it is possible, but unlikely, that there could still be a second hard drive but, in that case I'd expect the error message to show SATA 2&3 to be occupied, not SATA 1&2.

I guess we'll find out for sure once the case is opened.

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Computer case has been opened, and you are correct. Only one hard drive, and other SATA cable goes to DVD optical drive. With the case open, I even tried switching the hard drive to a different SATA port and I used a different power cable to the hard drive. Still no joy....system would not boot, so I will be ordering a new hard drive. The one that is in there is a Samsung 1 TB drive.

Before I opened the case I did try a few things, with the following results:
(1) I tried to boot using a System Repair disk. I got the error message that it was a non-system disk so replace and press any key when ready.
(2) I then tried to boot using the Win 10 disk that I recently created from an ISO. That did allow me to Repair the Computer, so I clicked on Troubleshoot and then Advanced Options, as follows:
(a) I first selected Startup Repair, but that simply resulted in the old 'no boot device' message
(b) I then tried the Command Prompt that Steve suggested, but no joy there either. I was first presented with the prompt x:\sources>. I then entered cd c:\ and got the message that the device was not ready. Same thing happened when I tried cd d:\, cd e:\, and cd f:\. So I gave up

I am now convinced that the one hard drive has failed, so I will be ordering/installing a new one. I will then install Win 10 on this new drive. If all that doesn't fix the problem, I will keep the new drive for one of my computers and my friend will just have to order a new computer. But I am truly hoping that a new drive will do the trick.

Thanks to Jay and Steve for all your help and guidance.....we tried

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

Before replacing the drive I'd use EaseUS Partition Master on the bad drive. Pull it and put in an enclosure or drive dock and connect to your system. Run Partition Master and see if the drive shows. If it does see if it is setup as MBR or GPT as stated in the left most box on the graph looking part of Partition Master. If the drive shows and is MBR right click on that left most box and select to rebuild the MBR. Might be stated differently but is obvious. Unlikely, but if it happens to report success, re-mount in your friend's system and see what happens. Go to the BIOS and see if the drive shows. If so select as the boot device. Look at Partition Master before attaching the drive to your system and then look for a new drive after connecting the one in question. You don't actually have to physically mount the drive to check if there is success on the MBR, just connect the cables.

If failure on the above I'd go with my thought of using Linux Live Media as outlined here.
https://www.fosslinux.com/274/how-to-create-linux-mint-live-usb-drive-on-windows.htm
It probably won't work but, if there were to be separate system and data partitions, it might and would allow you to pull data such a photos. I know you don't know Linux and I really don't know much myself. This is why I picked Linux Mint which is what I run in a virtual machine. It is very much like using Windows and you will have a desktop icon named 'Computer'. Double click and it is much like using Windows File Explorer. If there is an intact partition on the bad drive it will likely show.

None of the above will likely work but is what I'd do if I had the system in front of me before replacing the drive and doing a clean install. My main hope would be the possibility of saving some data.

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Jay, thanks for the suggestion, but at this point I am sorta tired of working on a failed drive. Plus, I don't have an enclosure so would have to purchase one. Plus I would like to get on using and playing with my own computers.

My friend has most of her data/photos saved on a USB drive, so there's not much left to save. And the only programs she uses are Word & Excel 2007....I have that Office Disk if she can't find hers. Also, I am trying to get her excited about Libre Office.

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BB
http://barrypatch.net