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 Post subject: Re: Surface 3 2-in-1
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:46 pm 
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Hey, I finally have a delivery date; Wednesday the 24th. Of course I don't know if it will be the SD card, tablet or both. Probably be the SD card as it shipped a day or two before the tablet. If that is correct I figure Thursday or Friday for the tablet. I REALLY am not good at waiting for stuff. :mrgreen: I normally don't allow things I can't control to bother me but there are always exceptions to the rule and this is my Achilles Heel. :rofl2:

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 Post subject: Re: Surface 3 2-in-1
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:58 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Surface 3 2-in-1
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:51 am 
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I know how you feel Jay I'm the same, and the way things are at present doesn't help. :rofl2:

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 Post subject: Re: Surface 3 2-in-1
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:39 pm 
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I'm really sort of making a joke out ot this tracking but it is rather odd. I mean tracking says Salt Lake City Utah then says Billings Montana the next day. Utah borders Wyoming to the south and Montana borders Wyoming to the north. It is like they are sneaking up on mr. :mrgreen: Actually I still think the odd tracking is possibly caused by two packages under one tracking number. Now tracking says it is out for delivery yet the estimated delivery still says tomorrow.

<edit>
Go figure, the tablet beat the SD card getting here! Tablet is here and updating to the current Windows version. :) One concern with buying refurbished is the device appearance. I'm happy to say that the tablet looks like new; not a blemish and not even a hint of a scratch on the screen.

Correction, just opened my door to step outside for a bit while Windows is updating and a package with the SD card was sitting there. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Surface 3 2-in-1
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:10 pm 
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jaylach wrote:
Go figure, the tablet beat the SD card getting here! Tablet is here and updating to the current Windows version. :) One concern with buying refurbished is the device appearance. I'm happy to say that the tablet looks like new; not a blemish and not even a hint of a scratch on the screen.

Correction, just opened my door to step outside for a bit while Windows is updating and a package with the SD card was sitting there. :)

Aww look, Jay as a happy kitty --->

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Jay, you are basically Sheldon Cooper with long hair (+ one or two extra years lol), a wee sing-song just for you:

https://youtu.be/x6aHIir1F28

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 Post subject: Re: Surface 3 2-in-1
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:15 pm 
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Sigh, there is still problem... What am I going to complain about now??? :rofl2:

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 Post subject: Re: Surface 3 2-in-1
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:06 pm 
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jaylach wrote:
Sigh, there is still problem... What am I going to complain about now??? :rofl2:


Fear not, you are our Sheldon and you'll find something soon enough! :rofl2:


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 Post subject: Re: Surface 3 2-in-1
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:22 pm 
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Well, there actually MAY be a problem. Even though plugged in it shut down doing the upgrade to the current version of Windows 10 due to the battery being too low. Hopefully, since I didn't fully charge first, it was just a matter of the charger not being to keep up with intensive hard drive usage. We shall see. If it won't take a charge I'll just return it. After all the charger is just 5.2 volts at 2.5 amps.

Glad I haven't applied the screen protector yet... :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Surface 3 2-in-1
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:37 pm 
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Just throwing this is here, are you sure the battery drained?... only asking because i thought that as well when my wifes version appeared to fail due to the battery, but it turned out it was just the upgrade took forever to restart the tablet.... at first i couldn't understand it because out of the box i charged it overnight so knew it was fully charged, i force restarted the tablet and tried again leaving it alone for several hours and it did eventually spring into life.

The odd thing is that ever since any upgrades have been without issue.
Sadly i don't recall which versions were involved in that slow upgrade process, may or may not be the same issue, but if yours was factory reset then i suppose it could be a similar issue?
Maybe try upgrading overnight instead?


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 Post subject: Re: Surface 3 2-in-1
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:42 pm 
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Nope, not sure an the battery charging but it starts to start then flashes the Surface logo for a second then goes to a battery icon showing very little charge. It is currently on the charger. The charger indicator light on the tablet end of the charging cord does light indicating that it should be charging.

The upgrade attempt was from version 2004.

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 Post subject: Re: Surface 3 2-in-1
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:28 pm 
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To be honest i have no idea when Win10 builds were released, version 2004 could have been from 2004 for all i know, or it could have been yesterday... Win10 releases are like a dark art to me LOL

It does look like your battery needs charged and i'd be surprised given that yours is refurbished your battery wasn't checked or replaced before reselling, but anything is possible and i guess we'll know more soon, good luck :)


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 Post subject: Re: Surface 3 2-in-1
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:07 pm 
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It has actually been some interesting reading as this seems to be a common problem with some interesting responses.

  1. The charging cable is too high of a gauge to handle the charging load. The included cable is 24 gauge and a 20 gauge cable is needed. I now have it connected using a heavy USB cable that is part of a set I have that has interchangeable connection plugs. I don't know the gauge of this cable but it is quite a bit 'heavier' than the one included. The higher a wire gauge number the smaller the wire.
  2. The more recent versions of Windows breaks the charging. I could see a possibility as to this causing it to not charge when on and running but not when turned off. Since I am trying to charge with it turned off I don't see this as likely although I WAS upgrading to the most current version of Windows 10. I just don't see what effect the version of Windows should have when it is turned off.
  3. This could be my own fault but I doubt it. I was looking at things during the Windows version update and unplugged the keyboard. It was within about a minute of this when it shut down. I seriously doubt it but it's not impossible that removing the keyboard may have messed things up.
  4. It DID start up again at that point saying that it was removing changes that had been made. It shut down again during this process and hasn't started again... well starts but shuts down right away with a low battery.
  5. Just to narrow things down a bit the thing has to know that it is connected to a charger as (if memory serves) Windows will not install or upgrade on a mobile device if the device is only on battery.

Windows 10 version 2004 (20H1) was the May 2020 feature update. The attempted upgrade was to 20H2, the October 2020 Update.

I'll play for a day ot two trying different cables and such. If no success I'll return the thing. I hope that it works out OK as it seemed pretty decent with a not bad boot time. I wish I had thought more as hind sight is always 20/20. Before I even booted to Windows I should have gone to the UEFI Bios and checked for updates. I should have also fully charged before doing anything at all. When I turned it on the battery was ~60%. If it didn't charge from there it would have ruled out some things.

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 Post subject: Re: Surface 3 2-in-1
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:03 pm 
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Again, i'm just throwing this out here...

Re:

1. I'd ignore the cable gauge if your tablet indicates it is charging, the one supplied ought to work.... refurbished means it ought to work unless i'm missing something.

2. It is not inconcievable that that this is a software issue, in that a false negative charge is being shown by the software.

3.If you are sure the battery is charged, 60% charge ought to be enough to update, try again without the keyboard attached... when Windows is updated to the latest version then Windows should be better positioned to install the latest drivers for the keyboard... my experience is that the keyboard can be quite flaky until it's fully recognised.

4. That sounds exactly like what i saw on the Surface Go although i didn't see, as best as i can remember, a low battery warning.... in my instance i let it run and it did eventually boot, there was no indication at all that it would but i'd tried everything else so left it alone, and it worked.

5. I don't know if your tablet will upgrade if only on battery power, i don't actually use the device so can only go with that i know about setting mine up for my wife, i'd be surprised that if a pre-requisite for an upgrade was mains power though.

I certainly wouldn't mess with the BIOS settings for your tablet... that will be an added complication you likely don't need or want... out the tin it should work, or it won't.


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 Post subject: Re: Surface 3 2-in-1
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:35 pm 
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If it doesn't charge up, a replacement refurb unit is certainly in order. Unfortunately, that means more waiting... :-(
I'm curious, though, you mention different cables for charging -- this model doesn't use the proprietary Surface charging connection?

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 Post subject: Re: Surface 3 2-in-1
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:48 pm 
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Well go figure... I tried the heavier cable for a while. Just came back in and tried the power button and the thing booted showing 65% battery charge. Went back to the included cable and will see what happens. Right now I'm back to Windows 10 version 2004.

You posted while I was typing Steve so I'll just add on...
The charger that was included is just a 5.2 volt, 2.5 amp micro USB charger. Apparently it will charge with any such USB charger but most would probably take longer. The difference with the included charger is that it is 2.5 amp while most chargers, say for a phone, are 1-1.5 amp.

LOL! At least I figured out how to do a right click on the touch pad. Pressing anywhere on the right side and you feel a click but for the actual right click you have to be in the lower corner.

<edit>
With both the included charger and the heavier cable it shows on the battery icon a bit over 2 hours until a full charge So I have to assume that it is charging... I take that back. Seems to only show a time to full charge with the heavier cable. With the included the battery time seems to drop.

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 Post subject: Re: Surface 3 2-in-1
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:07 pm 
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jaylach wrote:
<edit>
With both the included charger and the heavier cable it shows on the battery icon a bit over 2 hours until a full charge So I have to assume that it is charging...

Hopefully you will be able to use the tablet, begs the question why the supplied cable didn't work, i'd be asking that of the supplier in case you become limited in the future.

e.g. You paid good money, and although you found a workaround, it should have worked out the box.


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 Post subject: Re: Surface 3 2-in-1
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:50 pm 
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Micro USB is interesting. I've never looked at the model you have, but I thought that all of the Surface devices used the proprietary magnetic connector -- with only the latest models adding the option to charge using USB-C.
Attachment:
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I see that I was not aware that the Surface 3 went with a phone type charger.

I wonder if they sent you a generic 2.5 amp charger and cable instead of the original if your cable is replaceable. You may want to look into the dock (currently a pretty good deal!) and use your own cable and 2.5 amp wall wart with it. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VGJI1RS/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_dlT1_KVBTXZK87W13Z0V9GDWR?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

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 Post subject: Re: Surface 3 2-in-1
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:11 pm 
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@ Doddie: If I fiddle the included charger seems to work but it is a bit sloppy in the port. This is a known and common issue. The heavier cable fits the port more snug. In both cases the included part that plugs into a wall outlet is being used.

@ Steve: I was thinking about a dock and liked the price of what you posted. I ordered. Let's see if the thing fits the dock once in the case...

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 Post subject: Re: Surface 3 2-in-1
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:17 pm 
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jaylach wrote:
@ Doddie: If I fiddle the included charger seems to work but it is a bit sloppy in the port. This is a known and common issue. The heavier cable fits the port more snug. In both cases the included part that plugs into a wall outlet is being used.


Kind of begs the question why are you happy with that?

I know i wouldn't be but if it works for you i guess i have no reason to complain.


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 Post subject: Re: Surface 3 2-in-1
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:24 pm 
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Doddie wrote:
jaylach wrote:
@ Doddie: If I fiddle the included charger seems to work but it is a bit sloppy in the port. This is a known and common issue. The heavier cable fits the port more snug. In both cases the included part that plugs into a wall outlet is being used.


Kind of begs the question why are you happy with that?

I know i wouldn't be but if it works for you i guess i have no reason to complain.

I will look to get a cable replacement but I have so many cables it isn't really a big deal.

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 Post subject: Re: Surface 3 2-in-1
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:50 am 
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Cross fingers for me! Battery is close to fully charged and, as it sits, still charging. I'm attempting again to upgrade to Windows 10 version 20H2, Fall 2020 version. I'm doing it through Windows Updates this time so I don't have to have my USB SD card adapter connected. Also did all the version 20H1 (2004) first. The reason I didn't try using the USB SD card connection again is due to my memory kicking in and USB being a weird critter. If you remember Patty she built most of her systems as do I. Her last system would refuse to boot if there was a USB flash drive connected. Never was figured out why but it was what it was...

As I've typed the above the upgrade to version 20H2 is done without issue. :) Doing a last check for updates but it looks as it is now totally current. Here it goes with MBAM! ;) MBAM Premium is doing just fine. :)

BTW, I'm happy to say that the tablet came with zero bloatware except for Office 365. As I intended to install it anyway I can't really call it bloatware except that I had to remove two other language versions of the thing. Since the system drive is a small (128 GB) SSD I'm considering removing some Office 365 features but that can wait.

Especially considering that the Surface 3 runs an Atom CPU, so far I am quite pleased with performance and boot times. That includes my modified Start Menu and animated wallpaper.

Once I'm more used to it I think I'm going to sort of like the little beastly. The NOOK app is going to take some getting used to though for my reading. Quite a bit different than the Android version at least on a quick look.

Oh, I also ordered a mouse for the thing as I sort of hate touch pads although this one is better than most I've used. It is odd that I have two mice not being used and can't use either. At one time each was unified along with another mouse (two mice, 1 dongle) on other systems. Since then I can unify them but cannot use their original dongles to connect. :dunno:

Looks like the battery life will be acceptable. After a full charge and unplugging it shows over 4 hours of life. This is less than advertised but my desktop wallpaper is a constantly playing video and my modified Start Menu is taking resources. For my usage 4+ hours of battery life is fine.

I also have to laugh a bit on the system drive space. Started out with about 80 GB free space. After cleaning things up, and doing some installs, I now have about 85 GB free. Doing a drive cleanup including system files such as update files DOES make a difference.

The thing IS messing with my mind though! I noticed that the screen would darken a bit which is good for the battery but would brighten back up when I actually looked at the screen. I only notice the screen darkening out of the corner of my eye when I'm not actually facing the screen. Has to be something going on with the screen faced camera that detects when I'm looking. Kind of cool but a bit freaky at the same time. I can see how such is possible though. Don't know if they still offer but Logitech, at least used to, offer free software that turned a web cam into a security camera that was motion activated. My guess is that it polled the camera and turned on recording when the camera view changed meaning that there was motion. When the motion stopped it would turn off the recording after like 30 seconds or so. Actually pretty old tech as I tried this out back in the days of Windows Vista. Next time motion was detected it would start recording again. I'm sure that BB can follow this concept due to his motion activated wildlife cameras. Really the same thing when it comes to motion activated. One may ask how the system could detect if being looked at or not but think about red eye removal. I may be stretching a bit here but I could see one possibility being that the system knows what is on the screen and can detect a reflection in the camera view that matches according to a percentage of accuracy. Except in unusual lighting the eye DOES reflect what is being viewed.

:rofl2: I should set up systems more often! While being impatient my bathroom just got clean including replacing the shower curtain liner with a new one I got like 2 months ago... :shock:

<edit>
Well, since it is 5:25 AM I guess this is an all night trip... Not all that unusual for me but it is usually watching movies. :mrgreen:

Since it has been shown that I can charge the tablet I went ahead and applied the screen protector. To remind; the protector is thin tempered glass, not a plastic sheet. With the tools supplied with the protector package it went totally fine and there is not a single bubble that I can find and I looked with a magnifying glass. When I first placed it there were a lot of bubbles but they tended to be large. The large bubbles were actually the easiest to remove. The supplied little hard plastic card did a good job of 'squeegeeing' out the bubbles; the edge of a credit card would have done the same but it was a nice touch that the squeegee card was included.

The entire thing fits VERY well in the case I got. Had to sort of wiggle it a bit to insert but that just meant that the fit was tight and secure; there is no 'wobble' of the unit in the case. That was just about the only complaint I have about my Android case; it is a loose fit and tends to get out of line a bit. I'm sure that the case fit will loosen up a bit if I have to remove to put on the dock I ordered. Would be nice if the thing fits the dock while in the case but not an issue if not. As with my Android the case is to protect when out and about. When at home the case and keyboard will probably be seldom used just as is the case with my Android.

All looks good with the battery charging as I've been doing installs and stuff and the battery icon still shows as 100% charged and plugged in. I will admit that the charging is VERY slow but has kept up with and gained on the charging with what I have been doing.

I have to admit to being a bit surprised by the system performance considering that it is using an Atom CPU. Power button press to log in is ~30 seconds. I am actually rather impressed. :) Boot time is comparable with my I5 Asus laptop. I can't complain. :)

Are there some gripes? Yes, usually are. ;) Main complaint is that there are very few power options. For instance there is no option for what the power button does. Actually I'm not really sure what the power button does... I hit it and the screen blanks right away. Hit it again and I'm back to the desktop right away. I have sleep and hibernate disabled and it is too fast for either anyway. Not a big deal but I just don't get why the power options are so limited. I've never messed with a Windows tablet before so I may find more wanted options when I play between tablet mode enabled/disabled. Right now, if I touch the screen, the mouse pointer is gone. Have to touch the touch pad to bring back the pointer. In my mind, if I touch the screen, the mouse pointer should just stay there and follow my finger. I guess I'm just old fashioned. :rofl2:

All in all I'm pleased with the system but not entirely with Microsoft. The included charger for the Surface 3 has been proven too many times to not do the job for Microsoft to ignore yet they have offered no solution that I've been able to find. It was a third party solution that got me to try the heavier cord I'm now using. Other than the charging system I think I really like the danged thing. Shuts down in like 5 seconds and does a cold boot in like 20-25 seconds from power button to log in. You couldn't complain about the boot time if it was an I7 system.

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 Post subject: Re: Surface 3 2-in-1
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:14 pm 
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Well the last two items showed up this morning; mouse and dock.

The Surface 3 is fully operational while in the dock with or without the keyboard attached. It has several ports such as 2 USB2 and 2 USB3 ports, Ethernet port, Display Port and a 1/8 inch audio port. I didn't even try placing in the dock with the case on; not going to work but that is OK as, just like my Android, it will only be in the case if I take it someplace.

The mouse is Logitech with no extra buttons or frills.

Both the dock and mouse were seen without any messing or fuss.

I'm a happy camper. :338:

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 Post subject: Re: Surface 3 2-in-1
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:55 pm 
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Oh, I should add a thanks to Steve for supplying a link to Amazon for a docking station! :) At least initially it seems really nice but only time can tell for sure. Shoot, I've paid more for an external drive enclosure. Oh, the dock needs no cable or wall wart. The AC power does not even use an adapter as it is a straight 110 volt plug. Connections for USB and Display Port are automatic. It has slides on both sides to open/close. Slide the sides out and place the tablet and slide the sides in and the connections are automatic. Since the dock includes an Ethernet port the dock must also include an Ethernet to USB adapter internally.

As a negative on the Surface 3 I will say that the battery indicator in the Notification area is not even close to accurate. I can run it on battery for a while then plug in and it may say 2 hours till totally charged yet 20-30 minutes later it will say fully charged. LOL! Better than the other way around and I don't consider it an issue. Also the battery life seems not near as long as advertised but it could also be an inaccuracy with the indicator. Could also be that I'm running on full performance as to Power Options. Battery life would probably be a lot longer on battery saver mode.

I almost started looking at micro Display Port to HDMI cables to connect to a larger screen such as one of my HDTVs but decided that would be a bit on the dumb side. I mean that all my HDTVs are already connected to desktop computers. Why would I need to connect the tablet? :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Surface 3 2-in-1
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:56 pm 
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jaylach wrote:
I'm a happy camper. :338:

I used to wonder what a happy Geekazoid looked like, not so sure i want to dwell on that any longer? :rofl2:
https://youtu.be/x6rio-NabKw


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 Post Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 7:10 pm 
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The Surface tablets are very impressive pieces of kit, i don't use one myself but given that my wife works for a financial company and has used one for home working during the pandemic speaks volumes for their capability.

Her company IT Dept installed a VPN and other software specific to her job, she brought it home, and hasn't look back since.

Thats said, i did buy her a hub to connect a keboard, mouse, monitor & printer... but her boss paid for the hub when she explained how it improved her working from home environment... it was only circa £40 so not a great cost.


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