I may regret this but I'm seriously thinking about getting an aquarium. I used to do this a lot but not for over thirty years.

This all started when a neighbor inherited a couple of fish that are in a cheap 2.5 gallon tank. Since he is away a lot I guess I'm going to be the next victim for the critters but I know that I'd not be happy with such a small tank plus any tank under 30 gallon is impossible to set up as a stable ecology using fresh water; 50 gallon minimum for salt water.

I've actually been thinking about this for a long time before this but have been worried about weight as I live in a third floor apartment. After really thinking I don't think weight is a real problem. Heck, a water bed puts less weight per square inch than a normal 4-post bed. Should be no different with an aquarium. I already have an ' end table ' that could easily serve as a base which would also be in an ideal location in my living room. The table is solid wood with 4 2 inch square legs that would probably be fine but I'd put 1/2 inch thick plywood under the thing to further distribute the weight. Sigh, I'm probably going to do this as I've wanted to do so for ages and now I am going to have a few water critters to take care of...

Sorry as this is largely rambling and I think I'm just trying to justify within myself to do this. I really think that I want to do so but it is a LOT of work to setup properly as my preferred fish are somewhat exotic even though not salt water. It is also not cheap. To setup a self sustaining 30 gallon tank it would probably cost over $700.00 to do right. By doing right I mean a self sustaining ecology as I think weekly or monthly water changes is a total waste of time unless the tank is over populated. Think about it... You do a water change and add chemicals to try to make the new water the same as what you just removed.

While I am fond of several fish in the South American Cichlid family my all time favorite is a 'rope fish', also known as a 'reed fish'. They are SO cool and have a docile and friendly disposition. Shoot, they will eat out of your hand if you happen to have a meal worm to offer. They are a total pain as they are lung fish and escape experts. Could not count the number of times I'd get home from work and pick the danged thing off the floor and toss back in the tank. Still, even though a pain, they are just too cool. They are a miniature sea serpent. Here is a pic of a rope fish. They are a fish that thinks it's a dog loving to be petted and played with.

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The weight should not be an issue -- the subfloor will be at least 3/4 inch plywood or OSB and then more on top of that if it is a hard floor. Unless you feel the floor being "spongy" when you walk around, an aquarium on a table already distributes the weight to 4 points through the legs and the floor should easily support that.

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stephen boots
Microsoft MVP 2004 - 2020
"Life's always an adventure with computers!"

Thanks Steve. I agree that the weight is probably a non issue but still want to check to be safe. The floors are carpet but I don't feel any 'softness' other than the carpet. Where the tank would be located is also in a corner which would also make it more easily able to support weight as it actually has help from the wall junctions.

Other than the rope or reed fish here are others that are a must. They are all predictors but if put in a tank when really young they will get along. Below are pics of my favorites. Last tank I had held three florescent bulbs. I did two full spectrum bulbs (fish need this just like a bird) and one black light. Rewired the hood to segregate the black light. You should see these fish under a black light. It is like an animated light show as their coloring will glow.

LOL! Last time I had these fish local kids would go out and hunt crickets to feed the fish. Ya, they will eat bugs along with other live food. These fish are in the same family as a piranha and definitely predators.

First two are blue and yellow acara followed by a green terror and then a convict. And, of course, you have to have a Plecostomus to control alga growth, last image. Plecostomus, or Plecos, are actually ancient being around for over 75 million years if I remember right.

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Oh, I forgot another of my favorites, Jack Dempsey, image below. So many people believe that you have to go with a salt water tank to have bright and colorful fish but I think my pics prove this wrong as these are all fresh water critters.

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The fish look really cool -- and, yes, I think that the bird wants to eat.

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stephen boots
Microsoft MVP 2004 - 2020
"Life's always an adventure with computers!"

Ya, the fish I like are pretty but it takes a little knowledge to get them to co-exist in the same tank as they are all predators, well except for the pleco. They are totally aggressive and meat eaters although they will also eat normal fish food. As to the pleco they are vegans. Throw in a bit of cucumber, Zucchini or even romaine and they will love you for life. Just give them normal fish food and they will survive and eat the stuff but will not be totally healthy. As I said, they are normally vegans.

As to the others they will eat normal fish food but need meat at least at times as they are natural hunters. This is why good aquatic stores sell what is called 'feeder' guppies and gold fish. These fish are food. That MAY sound cruel but I do my best to make a natural environment and prey is part of that environment.

The trick to all of this is to add all the predators at the same time to allow them to establish their territories while they are really small.

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All those fish remind me of piranhas, I agree they do look colourful and Terabit is definitely interested in that tank.

I had a tank many years ago but mine were all the usual aquarium fish, Gubby's, Angelfish, Neon, Swordfish etc. It used to be fascinating when the Guppy's gave birth and you'd look in the tank to see all these tiny little specks and realise they were the babies. We had a glass barrier that we'd put into the tank to separate them before the parents ate them.

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Joan Archer
http://crossstitcher.webs.com

Except for the pleco they are all South American Cichlids as are piranhas. They are just not as aggressive as piranhas.

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Dang, I'm finding it difficult to find a tank that meets my requirements.

I want 30-40 gallons with under-gravel filtration. If you have ever seen an aquarium with tubes coming out of the gravel base with air bubbles going up the tubes that is what I mean by under-gravel filtration. How it works is that the air bubbles cause water in the tubes to move pulling water through the gravel. The gravel develops colonies of bacteria that break down the ammonia from the fish urine to non-toxic nitrates. It is, in my opinion, the only way to set up a self contained ecology in a tank. All I seem to be finding on-line are tanks that are setup for mechanical filters which will not draw water through the gravel meaning that the bacteria cannot live.

It is also important to use the right gravel. Agate is a normal base for salt water tanks as it inherently makes the water more alkaline but cichlids also like high alkaline levels.

I was initially looking for a square tank that would fit in the corner of my living room between my couch and a chair but will probably back off that thought and go with a rectangle tank. Did some measuring and found that I could move my bird cage to the corner and put the tank where the bird cage currently sits. To be honest a rectangle is better for several reasons.

1. Gives more surface area for the under gravel filtration allowing for a higher fish population.
2. Gives more area for the fish I want to setup their territories. Yes, the volume is the same but a rectangle gives more lateral space. A square tank is deeper but offers less territorial space.
3. Since I will want a rope fish a rectangle will give more lateral swimming area for the critter.
4. A rectangle tank gives more space to build caves and such out of slate slabs. This is important for both the rope fish and convicts.
5. There are other advantages but the previous are the main.

On a search I found that there a couple of aquatics stores here and will have to check them out to see what they have to offer.

Yes, I DO know about this stuff.

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And it is good to have hobbies.

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stephen boots
Microsoft MVP 2004 - 2020
"Life's always an adventure with computers!"

This is true Steve but, when considering living creatures, it is also a responsibility.

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Then, Joan, you have had cichlids as angelfish are in the same family. Cichlids are a wide variety with over 1600 species accepted in the family and some insist that should be more like 2000. Angelfish are one of the more docile cichlids but CAN be aggressive as to smaller fish and also other angelfish which is shown by 'nipping' on other's fins. Veil-tails, like the image below, are especially subjects for fin nipping.

A lot of people have cichlids without knowing. Oscars and discus are also cichlids.

The following are, in order, a veil tail angel, discus and oscar. Within all three species there are different color variations. If not apparent by now cichlids are some of the most colorful fresh water fish.

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WAH!! Bummer! Scrap the 30-40 gallon tank for cichlids. Talked to the maintenance guy today and he said that the floor would probably hold the weight but some of the floors are not in the best of shape and the only way to know would be to tear out the carpet. I'm not going to risk it. Still going to get a tank but probably more in the 20 gallon range on a corner table to be safe. To small for the cichlids I would prefer but it will still be nice.

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That's unfortunate. It will still be nice, though. It's good that you checked it out before making the purchase and then finding your tank in your downstairs neighbor's living room!

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stephen boots
Microsoft MVP 2004 - 2020
"Life's always an adventure with computers!"

Ya, the maintenance guy has been a friend since before he came to the apartments so I doubt that he would lie to me about it. In fact he was in the process of ripping out the carpet in another apartment and said there was like an inch of floor leveler. I just can't justify putting a 350-450 pound tank on a floor I can't be sure about. A 20 gallon tank goes at ~225 pounds which is probably less than my chest freezer.

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I won't buy as there are too many inherent issues with this kind of tank but I LOVE the concept. It IS tempting but a 'coffee table tank' is a pain to maintain and then there is the fact that you have to run power wires across the floor. Also the lighting is from the bottom through glass bead gravel. Bottom lighting messes up some fish and glass bead gravel tends to have some sharp edges which can injure bottom dwellers. Then there is the problem of condensation forming under the glass top... It IS tempting but I don't think I want the problems. It is 28 gallons but the weight is much more spread out than a normal tank.

https://www.amazon.com/Aquarium-Coffee-Table-Six-Sides/dp/B0002NJ3U8/

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Just ordered a tank! It is a 20 gallon with a stand. Normal price is $638.00 but there was a 50% off coupon dropping the price to $319.00. I don't know if I'll actually use the stand but could not pass up the discount.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09XKTBHDF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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When you told me about the Angelfish Jay I seem to remember we had what I think were called Black Mollys. This is going back to the 60s, it was during my first marriage, which ended early 70s, that we had a tank.

I like the look of the tank you've ordered, how many will you be able to keep in it?

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Joan Archer
http://crossstitcher.webs.com

The number of fish depends on what I decide to put in. General rule is 1 inch of fish per gallon of water. Some fish don't really count as much in this such as the rope fish I posted earlier as they have lungs and come to the surface to breathe.

As to the tank it will not come with the decorations which is what I want so I can set stuff up as I like. The decorations shown in the tank image would be more of a salt water environment and I'm doing fresh water so the shown decorations would not really fit. I'll be doing more like using pieces of slate or shale to make ledges and caves. Rope fish love caves and such and a rope fish will be my main critter.

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Oh, to add on to my last post, if you ever get an aquarium plan on not taking a shower for a few days. You just never know if a new tank is going to leak. I put a new tank in my bathtub and fill if the tub is large enough to hold the tank. It is a LOT better to find that a tank leaks in a bath tub than after actually setting up. I may even go longer with this tank in the tub than I normally would as it is a newly designed tank that was first available less than three weeks ago from a relatively new company. Ya, I'm taking a bit of a risk with this tank but there is a warranty and I can return if I find leakage.

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Grrrrr! I MUST have a rope fish in the tank and am having a problem finding... MAY even get two. It must be out of season or something as I can't find an available source to buy. These critters are mostly caught in the wild as they are VERY hard to breed in captivity. Must be out of season as the three possible sources I've searched so far are out of stock. Even if it takes a while I'm sure that I'll find. At least one is a must for me as they are like a 'water dog' wanting to be hand fed and petted.

I HATE waiting! My tank has hit Sheridan on Friday, 4/29, and MIGHT even get here the next day, Saturday. LOL! I'm just not good about waiting for delivery.

Still deciding on what fish, other than ropes, that I will populate the tank. The tank will be too small for my second favorites such as blue and yellow acaras as they get just too big for the tank size. I HAVE had Accra's in a thirty gallon tank with success but dropping down to 20 gallons it is a bit iffy. Still might be doable but would cut down on other fish I could add. One possible advantage as to this is that tank filtration has improved dramatically since my last tank which was in the early 1990's.

Ya, I'm excited as it has been a long time since I've had any kind of tank and I miss having. One advantage is that I'm starting with three fish that seem durable, a pleco, cory cat and I don't have a clue what the third is but it seems friendly and seems to be thriving is too small of a tank.

If I can find soon a rope fish will be the first addition as I want it to be dominate. They are VERY docile and human friendly yet predictors. The problem is the docility which makes them targets for other predatory fish. I've never experienced an issue with this but would rather it to be the first to enter the tank. Nothing I will put in the tank would be able to kill a rope fish but stress could be caused. Just as with humans, stress drastically increases the chance of disease.

Sorry but I'm anxious and excited and know I'm rambling but I've REALLY missed having a tank for a long time.

This all brings back memories. I was 12 or 13 when I set up my first tank. It was only 10 gallon but large enough for what I was doing. I saved and saved to be able to buy male and female guppies. It was my first business adventure. This was in like 1969 and a male/female pair cost me $60.00 plus the cost of the tank setup. These were rare and VERY fancy guppies with the male having a 'tail' longer than the body. I actually made money as the same shop paid me a couple of dollars for each baby. LOL! Guppies make a LOT of babies!

I'm actually more excited about all this than I was when getting things together for my last computer build. Makes me wish I was on the first floor of my apartments. If I were on the first floor I would not have to worry about the weight on the floor and would be setting up at least a 100 gallon tank. Who knows... sometime in the future a real tank could happen. LOL! What I'm getting will, at least, take the edge off.

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Ramble away!

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stephen boots
Microsoft MVP 2004 - 2020
"Life's always an adventure with computers!"

I'm enjoying your rambles, it's exciting you telling us what you want to get etc.

I know what you mean about the guppies this was one of the varieties we had in our tank, the males are so colourful with as you say brilliant tails and they did produce lots of babies, hence us having a panel we had to section off a part of the tank so as soon as we saw those little moving dots we could save them from being eaten by their parents. This was in the early/middle 60s when I had a tank with my first husband and our first home together.

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Joan Archer
http://crossstitcher.webs.com

Joan, I had a breeder trap similar to what is shown below. When the mom is close to ready to give birth you would put her in the top part and the babies would drop down to the lower part. Guppies, as I'm sure that you know, are a little unusual in that they give live birth instead of laying eggs.

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I don't remember seeing anything like that, I think the one we had was a 4-foot one, don't how many gallons it held, it fitted into an alcove.

Yes, I did know about the live birth with Guppies, we did have some. It's the same as Sea Horses, they give birth to live young and even more unusual is that it is the male who gives birth.

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Joan Archer
http://crossstitcher.webs.com