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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:54 pm 
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The question is can important data be safely stored online in cloud services. The answer is yes, and I do back up critical data to cloud services.

There are two equally important factors.

1st. The actual cloud service and how it works.
2nd The user and how he works. (this is actually the most critical)

When I started searching for services, data safety was most critical. Safety from the point of view of their infrastructure, and security of the data. I selected two. Idrive, and Jungle Disk which is a subsidiary of Rackspace.
Rackspace is one of the biggest commercial services, and Jungle Disk data can be saved either on Amazon or Rackspace. I chose Rackspace.

Both of the services have one thing in common. Your choice of password set up. The 1st option is a regular password setup. This password is stored on their servers, and if lost they can retrieve it for you. This to me is insecure. The second setup is to chose a password for log on purposes, but then chose a separate encryption key. When chosing this you must use a secure password for the encryption. Both sites give very stern warning, they can't recover the password for you. If you lose it, you have lost your data. Using this method with both programs, your data is encrypted with the private key, transmitted to the servers encrypted, stored encrypted, and when restored downloaded encrypted.

With Idrive you can log into the website and download your files from there. The website uses the login, but to access the data you need the encryption password. Jungle Disk using their optimum storage feature you can't download from the website. But taking security a bit further you can assign different levels of security to the Desktop Activity Monitor which is the only way to download. Lowest level requires a password to change configuration. Medium is necessary to start the Desktop Monitor and maximum a password is need to even start the service.

Based on my talks with both services, I'd say Jungle Disk/Rackspace might have an edge on overall security, but it is a bit more difficult to use.

I actually use both as that gives me geographical redundancy. Idrive servers are in several California locations. Rackspace servers are from north to south in the midwest US. Both companies span the data across several sites, but I think Rackspace updates the sites more frequently.

It is ironic that the most critical thing in data security is what the user does on his own machines.

Bottom line I feel very comfortable storing critical data on either of these sites, with a slight edge to Jungle Disk.

Pete


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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:26 am 
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Peter2150 wrote:
The question is can important data be safely stored online in cloud services. The answer is yes, and I do back up critical data to cloud services.

There are two equally important factors.

1st. The actual cloud service and how it works.
2nd The user and how he works. (this is actually the most critical)

When I started searching for services, data safety was most critical. Safety from the point of view of their infrastructure, and security of the data. I selected two. Idrive, and Jungle Disk which is a subsidiary of Rackspace.
Rackspace is one of the biggest commercial services, and Jungle Disk data can be saved either on Amazon or Rackspace. I chose Rackspace.

Both of the services have one thing in common. Your choice of password set up. The 1st option is a regular password setup. This password is stored on their servers, and if lost they can retrieve it for you. This to me is insecure. The second setup is to chose a password for log on purposes, but then chose a separate encryption key. When chosing this you must use a secure password for the encryption. Both sites give very stern warning, they can't recover the password for you. If you lose it, you have lost your data. Using this method with both programs, your data is encrypted with the private key, transmitted to the servers encrypted, stored encrypted, and when restored downloaded encrypted.

With Idrive you can log into the website and download your files from there. The website uses the login, but to access the data you need the encryption password. Jungle Disk using their optimum storage feature you can't download from the website. But taking security a bit further you can assign different levels of security to the Desktop Activity Monitor which is the only way to download. Lowest level requires a password to change configuration. Medium is necessary to start the Desktop Monitor and maximum a password is need to even start the service.

Based on my talks with both services, I'd say Jungle Disk/Rackspace might have an edge on overall security, but it is a bit more difficult to use.

I actually use both as that gives me geographical redundancy. Idrive servers are in several California locations. Rackspace servers are from north to south in the midwest US. Both companies span the data across several sites, but I think Rackspace updates the sites more frequently.

It is ironic that the most critical thing in data security is what the user does on his own machines.

Bottom line I feel very comfortable storing critical data on either of these sites, with a slight edge to Jungle Disk.

Pete


Pete:

Good post.

Let me ask a couple of practical (non technical questions)

1) What is this terminolgy we see everywhere called "cloud" all about?
2) Haven't we been storing data for years on hosts/servers not in our houses?
3) Banking hosts are not in my place.
4) PayPal? is it a cloud?
5) Why do it at all? Just get a 2TB external drive?


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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:50 am 
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The cloud terminology came up as a symbol of the internet. There really wasn't a good way to represent it since it was such a mish mash of stuff. So they kind of came up with an amorphous round symbol that somebody noticed looked like a cloud. People being people that name stuck, then symbol became like a cloud and so now the internet infrastructure, for better or worse, is known as the cloud.

So yes we have been storing things on the internet - the cloud - for a while but it's getting easier and normal folks can simply use things like SkyDrive. You know the computer technology crowd. Their terminology is always suspect - how many things are user friendly that stink? - and they latch on to new names so they can sell it like it's something brand new. It's how they roll.

Why the cloud? Well, if it can be made secure than you don't have to worry about that 2TB external drive going belly up. Your stuff is safe without you doing much of anything. They can handle the backup methodology and the user doesn't worry. It's probably cheaper in the long run when we get there.

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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:51 am 
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Manny Carvalho wrote:
People being people that name stuck ...and so now the internet infrastructure, for better or worse, is known as the cloud.


Love it! :lol:

Acadia

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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:01 pm 
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Yep, here it is:

Image

What does that look like?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_computing

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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:11 pm 
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Manny Carvalho wrote:
Yep, here it is:

Image

What does that look like?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_computing



Good post Manny as per normal!

Quote:
It's probably cheaper in the long run when we get there.


I highlited the key word for me in your post. I'll hold on to my 2TB drive for now!

It all a cloud for me :rofl2:


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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:06 am 
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I know absolutely nothing about this subject so did a search. This was one of the results.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/24/cloud_storage_reliability/

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:06 pm 
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@Escalader

The why. My critical data is on 3 machines each backed up to 2nd internal drive, as well backed up on 3 external drives. Additionally I can lose the machine I do most business stuff on, and start up on either of the other two with no loss of data. So why the cloud. Simple, fire. What if there was a fire in my apartment building. Game over, but at least I have my critical data

@andsome

I read the article, and I might agree with it in general terms, but reread my post. I was talking about 2 specific instances. Also, when I made my decision, the information I needed was not found on their websites. I had to call and talk to people, and frequently the first sales people weren't knowledge about things I was asking about, they had to hand me off to support. Also I've periodically called back to be sure I am still hearing the same thing.

One other point. So many people base their search for these services on one concept. Free. I based mine on security.

Pete


Last edited by Peter2150 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:05 pm 
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Pete makes a good point. For business critical data it's important to have an off site backup in case there's a disaster on site that destroys your backups. The cloud makes it easier to do that without physically rotating hard drives off site.

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:55 pm 
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Manny Carvalho wrote:
Pete makes a good point. For business critical data it's important to have an off site backup in case there's a disaster on site that destroys your backups. The cloud makes it easier to do that without physically rotating hard drives off site.



Thank to you all for putting up with my why question(s).

It shows the depth of your knowledge to answer these things.

Pete I will re read your post. And Manny yes a disaster is possible. I know people who had fires and lost ALL their data including family photos. So this matter is not just a technical one it is very human.


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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:30 am 
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Sigh... I can't say that I don't use the cloud. Shoot, I have web sites up... they are part of the cloud.

Mayhaps I'm old fashioned but I tend to physically go to my credit union at least once a month. It takes me an extra 5 minutes, at most, to swap backup drives in my saftey deposit box. I consider that off-site backup. Sure, there could be a flash flood or meteor impact that would take out both my apartment and the credit union 2.5 miles away but, if that happened, I'm probably not all that much concerned about data as I'd probably also disapear. ;)

Look, I'm not putting anybody down. Nor am I saying anyhting against extreme security measures. Each to their own as they say. Mayhaps I just look at my system in a little different light. YES, I do business stuff on it and YES, I have personal emails and other stuff from people that are no longer with us. If I lost everything it would still not be the end of the world. (another sigh) I don't know... I'm not saying that ANYBODY is wrong but it seems to me that the 'data' is becomming more and more important than the actual person. I have a system because I enjoy computers. Other than my websites nothing that I do DEMANDS that I have a system. Sure, email demands a system but there is actually nothing that I do in an email that I could not do with snail mail, just would take longer. Sorry but as much as I use and depend on my computer for communication I just cannot look at it as something that I could not do without.

Again, not putting down what anyone does, I read some posts in threads and have to think... "What possible use cvan they actually get out of their system?" By that I mean that it seams that SO much time is spent in 'protecting' the system that I can't see where there is time left to be productive.

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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:28 am 
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All my photos are duplicated on two memory sticks, and also on a USB plug in hard drive. All software that I have paid for is treated the same way. There is nothing else that I need to safeguard personally. So I have no use for cloud or any other outside storage. If I get hit by a meteor I will accept my fate. :multi8: :multi8:

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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:00 am 
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Hi Guys

Photos and things of that nature, I don't actually worry about. But my business data is another thing. I don't do anything on paper anymore. So my income, as well as the people who work for me depend on that data being secure. Even email, every month I dump emails from Outlook(to keep the size reasonable) and save them in a monthly searchable email. When I need them, boy I need them. Same is true of all the data. So securing it is most important. Does doing this save time. Yes it does, but it saves more time by the elimination of moving the paper around.

Not for everyone for sure. But the point here is with a little effort data can be safe in the cloud.

With all the hack's into systems, I wait to here Rackspace has been hacked. Then I'll rethink it

Pete


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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:35 am 
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That's why a backup strategy has to be tailored to your needs. For some folks a USB stick here and there is plenty; others don't even care; while some could lose money or their livelihood if all of a sudden they lost everything. It's not a matter of spending so much time protecting the system but rather protecting yourself so that you can always be productive no matter what. It's a matter of what's right for you and how much of an impact it would have if you lost it all.

Even before computers we had a record keeping policy at work that required us to retain records of certain things safely. Computers just made it easier to carry that policy out.

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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:32 pm 
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I've got external drives that do weekly images. My backup system for my household accounts starts with an exercise book in which I put down everything that's spent, although that doesn't include cash purchases of which there aren't many, everything is done either via debit card when out and about or direct debits and standing orders.

Each days payments go into the book these are then transferred to an Excel workbook. There is a page per month, each months page is printed out at the end and filed in a ring binder. My banking is done online, I'm too far away from my actual bank, I have online statements which I print to go in another binder. My bank only saves statements for 3 months but I think I can go back several years in printed, and printing them myself takes less paper than having the bank send me monthly statements.

My photo's are stored in my Pictures folder to start with then they go onto a DVD to backup plus I have Skydrive and Dropbox accounts and other online photo backup accounts.

I don't have to worry about losing a livelihood if I do lose them but I do take security seriously and having a back up plan but I'm more interested in using my computers for helping out in several forums and having fun. ;)

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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:35 am 
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My main hard drive is on a mirror image on a plug in external drive, created using ACRONIS.

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