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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:13 pm 
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This may sound like a strange question but I'm thinking about pulling the drive I use for images on my media system out of its enclosure and mounting internally.

Since I STILL have not gotten a UPS I am concerned that a power problem could wipe out both the system and image drive.

If I were to go ahead and mount the thing I would want it disconnected when not in use. Do I need to disconnect both power and data or would just power suffice? I'm thinking that I'd probably need to do both but am not sure.

Hmmm, just had a thought but will still leave the above question just because I'm curious.

What if I just pulled the drive out of the enclosure and ran longer SATA cables from the mother board out the back of the box. It would be no different than if mounted internally and simple as could be to disconnect. And no, the drive is not USB powered so the connections are the same as an internal drive. I just don't trust USB powered drives. Since the tower is in sort of a recess I'd just put some Velcro on both the cables and the back of the box so I would not have to search when needed.

LOL! I think I just answered my own question... Thanks everyone. :geek:

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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:28 pm 
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Removing power would suffice.
You may want to consider a removable drive cage. You can then pull the drive out of the PC when not in use, but it would be "internal" for all intents and purposes. Have you looked at eSATA as an option for an external enclosure? You should be able to put an eSATA port on the backplane or even through the faceplate of a drive bay cover on the front of the PC.
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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:55 pm 
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Thanks Steve but I don't see the real need.

As to a removable drive cage that would mean that I would have to pull out the tower every time. With the tower in place I have about 1.75 inches of space for air flow, not enough room to pull a cage without pulling out the system.

Yes, I'm sure that I could add an eSATA port but why? I just don't see the need to buy an eSATA card for this as the imaging drive would be the only use.

If I just run SATA cables from the mother board out the back of the box the drive becomes a true internal even though it is outside of the case. When not doing an image or restoring I just unplug from the SATA cables and stash the drive. It really would be an external with true internal speeds as the connections would be internal. Two feet of cable would probably do fine but 2.5-3 feet would be better. I have not yet looked to see if such cables are available. If not I know that I could use a shorter cable and just cut it in half then adding length. Actually I just took a quick look on Tiger Direct and found 3 foot cables for $8.00 plus shipping...

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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:53 pm 
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I have a dock that is both USB and eSATA. Needless to say, I use the eSATA port. Works great and is fast.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:08 pm 
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I use this on eSATA :

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... =T925-1252

I use it for my dual (triple) boots. Swap drive out to different OS start machine use the boot menu from the BIOS to select when I want to boot to the external.


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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:29 pm 
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I have pretty much the same dock David except that mine supports USB 3. I can't comment on your dock Patty as I don't know what you have.

I understand that eSATA is quick but just can't see a need to install a card to acquire.

Running SATA cables out the back of the box should work just fine... Am I missing something?

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 Post Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:53 am 
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If you're okay with running the cables out of the back of the PC and plugging/unplugging the drive, that's a perfectly acceptable solution. :-) I do think you will want to use an enclosure for the drive.
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 Post Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 11:49 am 
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My dock is a "SunBright." It was a cheapo dock, one of the first. I bought 3 of them. One I carry around to clients in case there is need to copy off large amounts of data or do an image. (I use it with another of my Hitachi Deskstars.) And I got one for my husband to do external images. I had many clients buy them also - but then they disappeared. I haven't seen them for years. Never had a problem with one, though I have seen problems with other brands.

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 Post Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:16 pm 
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@ Steve: Not sure if I'll use an enclosure or not. Currently I do not as I'm using my dock. I DO happen to have a spare enclosure but don't know if I want to ruin it as to future use as a true enclosure. I'd have remove or cut out the back to be able to be able to plug in the SATA cables. If either of my enclosures or the dock were eSATA enabled I'd probably buy a card. Since I'm just trying to save a little time on images it just does not seem practical to buy both a card and enclosure/dock.

@ Patty: My dock is a USB 3.0 made by Sabrent that will take 3.5 and 2.5 inch drives. One of my enclosures is Seagate the other Toshiba, both are USB 3.0.

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 Post Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:59 pm 
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Mine is also 3.5 or 2.5. I don't like drive enclosures. Either the enclosures fail, or the drives fail. I'll take my docks anyday. The drives are sealed anyway.

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 Post Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:54 pm 
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I haven't had any issue with a drive failing in my enclosures but I did have an enclosure in which a 500GB drive was made useless with a normal cable, just would not stay connected. I guess that the plugs in the enclosure somehow messed up the plugs on the drive, possibly an alignment issue. I no longer have that enclosure and the drive went with it. Gave it to a college kid at work to use for backups. It all worked fine as long as the drive was in that enclosure.

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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:42 pm 
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When I had my tower out of its slot to mount an internal 4GB drive I found a bit of an issue with running cables out the back to connect the image drive. Simple fact is that the SATA power cables and a normal data cable just will not reach... However I DO tend to be persistent. :mrgreen:

As is often the case the SATA power lines from the power supply just don't have enough space between the plugs. There are 4 total SATA power plugs on 2 lines. The length between the plugs won't even reach between the 5.25 and 3.5 inch bays let alone from any to the back of the box.

As I have decided that running internal cables outside the box is my best way to go here is my solution...
1) I need a long SATA data cable. When I connected the new internal 4TB drive I bought a 4 pack of 18 inch cables. The 18 inch length seems to be the norm. Sadly they won't come close as to the reach I need in this specific case. I actually found a 3 foot SATA data cable. Reach is no longer an issue.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... pNo=570343

2) There is no way I can reach the back of the box with the power supply's SATA lines but there are also 2 Molex lines. Simple answer is a Molex to SATA Y adaptor. I could have gotten the adaptor for less but liked the 12 inch length.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... pNo=693024

Total cost including shipping is $15.92. Since this setup is strictly for my image drive the cost is the deciding factor. Even though I think that I have an eSATA header on my mother board I'd have to buy the unit to connect to the header. Then I'd also have to buy a dock enabled with eSATA.

With my solution I basically have a SATA dock that is directly internally connected.

Cosmetically there is zero issue as the cables will never be seen unless in use. I'll use an adhesive Velcro strip to wrap the cables with the other side of the Velcro adhered to the upper back of the box. Actually I may not even use the Velcro as there is a screw sized hole in the area I want the cables. I could just as easily mount a wire strap on this hole with the strap loose enough to be able to extend the cable when needed but drop back down when not in use.

Can anyone see anything wrong with my logic as to this working as I wish? From the date of the first post you can see that I have been considering this for close to a month. Is there anything wrong in my thinking? Oh, BTW, Can't exactly say where I got them but I DO have plastic caps for both the data and power connectors that will be outside the box to prevent any possibility of a shorted connection.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:27 am 
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Wouldn't just be easier to buy a UPS.


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 Post Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:12 am 
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I do need to get around to getting a UPS but that has nothing to do with doing images.

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 Post Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:29 pm 
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Done and did... :)

Molex to SATA power cable showed up yesterday and the 36 inch data cable today. Wires have been run and all worked as expected.

It almost seems like my case was set up for something like this. I did not have to run the wires through a card slot. In the upper third of the back of the box are two ... I don't know what to call them... Rubber insert split to allow wires to pass. The SATA power and data cables went through fine.

Since I don't want to have to pull out the system to find the connections I used an adhesive wire wrap. It is a basic wire loop that can be adjusted. It uses a built in adhesive to attach. The wiring is now established without issue. If the image drive is not attached I just drop the wires through the 'wire loop' and they are not even seen. When needed I just pull them up through the loop. Already done, tested and is exactly what I hoped.

The results...

I did an image excluding the Win 10 partition using the Windows 7 image backup routines. There were zero issues and the image is proven to work.

The time it took for the image... Some are going to think that it is too long but I am VERY happy. The image took ~70 minutes to write. However it must be kept in mind that I did not just image my Win 7 partition. I did Win 7, my main data partition and a little 'scrap drive I keep for doing photo stuff. The total image encompassed drive space of 423GB. I think that 70 minutes is pretty decent for that size of an image.

If I'm doing my math right just imaging the Win 7 partition at 97GB the time would be around 17 minutes.

I am quite happy. :mrgreen:

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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:12 am 
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Well done, MacGyver, I mean Jay! :-P

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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:04 pm 
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sboots wrote:
Well done, MacGyver, I mean Jay! :-P

-steve

:rofl2:

Actually this is a sort of big deal for me. Using my USB 3 dock to do an image of that same 423GB was an all day project. Usually I'd start the image and go to bed or to work.

Of course I'll still have to use the dock to image my laptop but I'm thinking of just doing the OS partitions without the data. The data partition is 325GB by itself. Since the laptop and desktop sync the data and I'll still have an image I don't really see where a redundant data image is needed.

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