I got the following email from the MS Outlook Team. I have applied the update led to by the first 'here' with no apparent issue. We shall see what happens in a few weeks. I should add that I have only installed the update on my desktop Win 7 install. I have not yet applied to either my Win 8.1 or 10 install.

To be honest I was a bit suspicious about the following email. I was thinking... OK, how does MS even know what email client I'm using. However an email header does contain the client used along with a LOT of other info. Also I agreed to MS knowing that I am using Live Mail as part of the 'Terms and Conditions' when I installed. ( I sort of wonder how many other than myself bother to even, at least, scan through terms and conditions when installing applications...) Also the included links DO go to MS pages. In my opinion the email is clean and not out of line. At least they offered me a fix so that I could continue using Live Mail instead of just cutting it off.

What do I think of all this? As long as the update works and I can continue to use Live Mail 2012 I could not care less. I will say that part of me thinks that this whole thing is another gambit to get people to upgrade to Win 10 but, even if true, that is still OK as they gave me an easy to follow way to keep doing as I am. To be honest, if it were not for the fact that Win 7 just handles media for me better than 8.1 or 10 (and the fact that I like to have other OS installs to go to help me offer help on issues here) I'd probably be running nothing but 10. Nothing is being done that every user using Windows and subsequent MS software did not agree.

I am posting this as I do not know if everyone using Live Mail 2012 will get such an email or if my being a member of the Insiders thing is a factor.

_________________

I got the same email this morning and applied the patch on this Asus Notebook running 10. Like Jay I'll wait and see what happens, still have my 7 machine and Johns 7 machines to do.

_________________
Joan Archer
http://crossstitcher.webs.com

I received the same email. I inadvertently deleted it yesterday12/15. I have set up all my accounts in the new Windows 10 email app. I don't see a path or selection to find my contacts list for adding or editing contacts. That seems to be an issue with many people in the Windows Feedback section that appears when you click the smiley face located at the bottom left of the email window. I will install the update for WLEM 2012 as I like the way that works. Thanks for posting this Jay.

Jay I have no issue with playing video media or music in Windows 10. I play movies with PowerDVD 14 by Cyberlink. I've had that software for a long time to allow me to play Blu-ray content. It also allows me to play my audio files. If you don't play Blu-ray movies Jay there is an app available in the Win 10 app store called Plex that works remarkably well. To gain the full features you have to upgrade for a one time fee of $5. You first have to create an account and install the Plex server software from there website. YOU DON"T HAVE TO GO PREMIUM! Just add the app from the Win 10 store and pay the one time $5 fee.

https://plex.tv/

_________________
Terry

It just goes to show you, it's always something. If it's not one thing it's another!
_Rosanne Rosannadanna

Terry it isn't so much the player that is an issue with my preferring 7 as to media. I use the VLC Player and it works just fine in Windows 10.

My real issue, which I'm sure will seem trivial but are important to me, is twofold.
1) Natively 10 will not handle a DVD. As far as playing this is not an issue as I use VLC anyway. The issue is that I 'author' some DVDs for my own usage. For example let's take music videos. There are a LOT of music videos out there that are offered for free. I'll take several and create a DVD. My preferred output is to an ISO (or disk image) file. With 10 I need to have third party software to then actually burn the DVD if I choose to do so. In 7 all I have to do is right click the ISO file and select to open with Windows Disk Image Burner. It is just quicker and easier.

2) This is, to a large extent, a media system and is connected via HDMI to my 42 inch HDTV. Since it is a media system I want it 'pretty'. Do you remember Windows Vista and the Dream Scenes desktop where you can have an animated video file playing as the 'wallpaper'? I have Dream Scenes working in Win 7 but it appears to not be possible in 10. Right now my desktop is an animated snow fall in a wooded area with a stream going through. I can go out with my camera and take a video then make it my desktop.

Yes these are pretty trivial factors but important to me. To be honest 2) is probably the true one reason I stay with 7 on the media system. I no longer run a computer repair business but, even if I did, I'd still have systems with different operating systems. Right now my systems serve two purposes.
1) The most important, to please me. For my purposes Win 7 pleases me. Of course I can do everything that I do in Windows 7 just as well in Windows 10 but straight functionality is not exactly where I am at. With the ability to run Dream Scenes Windows 7 is just plain aesthetically better.
2) To help others here as best as I can. To do that I have to have different operating systems installed.

Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against Windows 10 and it my default OS on my laptop. I just want total 'pretty' for my media system. I want pretty enough that I also use the UML video player for a single purpose. I have fireplace videos. These are not the poor screen saver type fireplaces. These are done by people that set up a camera on a tripod and recorded the full run of a fire with audio. Of course it is not the same as a real fireplace but it is still quite nice. I can open my main playlist as to music in Windows Media Player and a fireplace in the UML player. Often I have kicked back on my couch reading a book with a fireplace video going and also music. It is just nice.

_________________

I understand Jay. I skipped the Vista OS. I went from XP Pro to Win 7 Pro. I have my 55" smart TV in the basement home theater set up the same way, with HDMI. I play my movies from the desktop to the big screen and audio through my AV receiver.

The DVD's of the music videos sound like an excellent idea. The fireplace videos are a cool too. I never used animation in my backgrounds. I wish I had. Do you think MS will bring that feature back? I still have one machine with Win 7-64 bit on it. I'll have to play around with that.

_________________
Terry

It just goes to show you, it's always something. If it's not one thing it's another!
_Rosanne Rosannadanna

Who knows what MS will do? Still I doubt that you will see a return of Dream Scenes.

Since you are still running Win 7 on a machine let me know if you would like a link to the dream scenes patch and some good video files.

_________________

Sure that would be great. Thanks Jay!

Why is it all the good stuff gets put in the dumpster? MS thinks they're helping or improving, and to a point they are, but the user loses some of the really cool things during the upgrades. Such a shame!

_________________
Terry

It just goes to show you, it's always something. If it's not one thing it's another!
_Rosanne Rosannadanna

OK, here you go...

It is a rather large download due to the included videos. Select Dream Scenes from the following link
http://jaylach.com/downloads/

_________________

Hmmm, interesting. In Firefox, my two online Outlook accounts still work as slow as a pregnant snail moving thru molasses. As I have stated before, not in this thread, I never requested this change to the new "Preview" Outlook, Microsoft just took over. As for the suggestion from Microsoft to switch to Win10, I'll wait; I belong to that old fashioned philosophy that states, If it ain't broke don't fix it. Besides, I am getting too annoyed by all the popups telling me to switch to the "free" Windows 10. I will not switch, at least at this time, out of pure spite if nothing else . "Free" has its hidden price and I have NEVER suffered from waiting to switch to the next OS. Sorry MS but your tactics reek of too many companies that I have lost respect for.
Acadia

_________________
The blazing evidence of immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution. -- Emerson

Microsoft has adopted the same philosophy as the military. Don't ask and Don't tell. The don't ask at all and for the most part don't tell. This thread is why I would never use any MS online service. You can lose control of it in a heart beat.

There is one thing in common with all the security products I use. I have gotten to know the vendors and based on their actions I trust them. Based on Microsofts actions with this Win 10 upgrade, I do not trust them. I now consider the biggest threat to my computer to be...Windows Updates.

That is very interesting Peter. Are your feelings based on the fact that we don't have the option to choose what and when to install the updates? I guess I never gave it much thought whether a 'free' update was a bad thing. I still have the old Win 7 system stored if I want to go back. Windows 10 can have it's moments but it's not as bad as I thought it would be.

The Win 10 Mail app still has some short comings. I looked at it yesterday and went back to WLM today. Also your contacts are located in the 'People' app and right now that app doesn't sync with the online version of 'People' in Outlook. I have contacts 'groups' created online and they don't appear in the PC version of the 'People' app.

_________________
Terry

It just goes to show you, it's always something. If it's not one thing it's another!
_Rosanne Rosannadanna

Exactly. For example, I have never ever let windows updates do hardware drivers. I have tried it having appropriate backups in place and the results have never been good. Also I always wait at least two weeks before doing updates, and monitor forums to see what is going on.

This thread also services me as a warning about using online office stuff. I use office 2010, but I am in control of the updating.

And I agree I have an image with the latest win 10 on it and all in all it's fine. But another issue is I can set all the setting the way I want, and a major update like 1511 resets them all to Microsoft's liking. If I ever did business that way I'd be gone really quick.

OK, as one of my pc security heroes, Steve Gibson, loves to state: "This is my computer". But that changes when you accept the "cloud", to a certain extent anyway. Then some things are up for grabs for the companies that you accept. So they, in theory, don't download any software onto your pc, and everything software-wise remains the same. Sorry, I've seen too many sneaky exceptions. I remain with a single email client that simply works no matter what MS or anyone else tries to do to it. Yes, it needs the usual software update, but for the most part is always under MY control. My statement to Microsoft: You've got soooo much going for you, don't blow it with underhanded tactics.
Acadia

_________________
The blazing evidence of immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution. -- Emerson

It's a new world. It's your choice - go with the flow or be left behind. That's no judgment on right, wrong, good, bad or ugly. I've got no dog in the fight either way. But don't presume Microsoft's demise if they don't do what you like. That's not going to happen.

How does one service a billion customers on hundreds, if not thousands, of different devices? And maintain a high degree of security? Not by letting the individual customer decide when and which updates to install. Most especially in these litigious times.

_________________
Patty MacDuffie
Computer Haven Administrator

Live Long and Prosper
Mr. Spock

I'd agree it's a new world, and I have no doubt about Microsoft's demise, unless someone comes up with a better mouse trap. As far as litigation, I don't by that a bit. With all the other legal stuff you have to agree to that should be an easy fix. No they are doing this for there own reasons, not for the benefit of the users.

Have one question. Do you have any clients on Outlook, and how do they feel about the latest Outlook update?

I do, and I use it myself. I assume you mean 2016 being the most recent update? Or something more incremental. I have no complaints, nor have I heard any from clients.

I don't understand your point on the easy fix. Ok, maybe they can't be successfully sued, if that's what you mean.

As to their own reasons - what nefarious reasons do you attribute it to if not the benefit of users? The primary reason for any successful company's existence or actions is the benefit of its users. Otherwise they may as well close up shop.

_________________
Patty MacDuffie
Computer Haven Administrator

Live Long and Prosper
Mr. Spock

To me this is all pretty obvious. While there MAY be some rare freeware exceptions anytime that you install software whether it be from Microsoft, Corel, etc. you are presented with terms and conditions as to the use of the software. If you do not at least scan through these terms and later find something that you do not like that was covered in those same terms who is to blame but yourself?

Since this thread started as letting people know about a change (and a fix to not change) to Live Mail I will stick to that. How much did I pay for Live Mail? When I installed Live Mail did it not state in the terms and conditions that the service could be changed or ended in the future? When I checked the box I agreed that I understood and accepted these terms. Even if they had not offered the fix to allow me to still use Live Mail with my Hotmail account what reason would I have to complain? Such possibilities were fully disclosed during the install.

Another example is One Drive. Did not the terms and conditions state that the service could change? Again, if one did not look at those terms and conditions, who is actually at fault if something is lost? Certainly not Microsoft.

Now I have questions to present to both Acadia and Peter...
1) Did you not agree to the terms and conditions on all software involved?
2) Did Microsoft break any of these terms and conditions by making changes?
3) In the two examples I gave above did not Microsoft bend enough to allow a user to opt in to keep the changes from happening?

I think everyone here who is a regular knows that I am no evangelist for Microsoft. If they do something wrong I will say it and have. In the cases stated in this thread Microsoft has done nothing at all wrong.

I will go one step further and make a comment on Windows 10 and updates. I would imagine that more systems are infected by a lack of updates than a lack of security software. Take two identical systems except that one does updates and the other does not; both are running no anti virus package. Which is more likely to be infected? Please also consider that anyone that installs 10 has agreed to the update scenario. Yes, I DO believe that, at least in concept, the forced updates were initiated as a benefit to the user. On the other hand, while I can find no fault with the Win 10 update system in general, I DO believe that they fell a bit short. Device drivers should be totally optional.

_________________

I, on the other hand, DO find fault with the general updating system in Windows 10! LOL But not in what we are discussing here.

I have a problem with the lack of notification about what is happening. I believe I corrupted my Windows installation past repair due to an update that was occurring that I didn't know was occurring and thought my system was hung. I forced a shutdown. I wound up having to do a clean install. I didn't gripe too much as I had been wanting to do a clean install anyway. I believe the same thing has now happened to a client of mine. I can't prove that is what happened, but I have seen on my machine and my husband's where the machine appeared to be hung, but when we waited long enough , updates had been being installed. I do warn clients about this.

So my disagreement is a technical one, not a policy one.

_________________
Patty MacDuffie
Computer Haven Administrator

Live Long and Prosper
Mr. Spock

I THINK that I MAY have seen this once Patty and survived. I MAY be way of base but I seem to remember that when I selected to shut down there was actually a dialog thrown up that informed me that an update was in progress asking me if I wanted to wait or force the shutdown.

If my memory is serving correctly the dialog was rather vague and should be more of an alert stating that an update is in progress, do NOT shut off the machine. Again, if I remember right, the dialog looked too much like the dialog about an app not closing right... wait/force shutdown options offered.

While I have not even heard of any expectations I expect a service pack for Win 10 by the middle of 2016 at the latest. This is like XP to Vista to 7. In such a case Win 10 is Vista.

_________________

No dialog box at all, just machine unresponsive.

You won't be seeing service packs. You'll see things like the Threshold 2 update - if it ever arrives!

_________________
Patty MacDuffie
Computer Haven Administrator

Live Long and Prosper
Mr. Spock

Even with a different name does that not equate to a service pack?

_________________

Not really.

It isn't an accumulation of previous patches up to a certain point. it has new features and replaces the existing OS. It's much closer to a point release, such as 8.1, or even 98SE. It runs Windows setup in its entirety.

_________________
Patty MacDuffie
Computer Haven Administrator

Live Long and Prosper
Mr. Spock

Sigh... Mayhaps that is true but it still seems to me to be, in essence, a service pack. With what MS is currently doing how do we possibly know where to draw the line between a service pack and a new OS?

To me an OS is defined by the core kernel or root system routines. XP was an introduction of a new kernel as was Vista. Win 7 refined the new kernel introduced by Vista but still used the same basic kernel so is not a new OS. 8.1 was also a new kernel so equates to a new OS. It seems that 10 still uses the basic 8.1 kernel just using modified interfaces. Therefore it seems to me that 10 is not truly a new OS but rather a dramatic service pack dealing mostly with the user interface.

_________________

Not sure what software you are talking about. I certainly have no issues with Win7. Microsoft did NOT allow me to opt in when they forced me from Hotmail to Outlook Preview.
Acadia

_________________
The blazing evidence of immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution. -- Emerson

Patty, I'm with you with regards those updates. It happened to me this morning, I was lucky though in the end.

The machine was going very slow, even trying to use Edge. At first I thought it might be something wrong with the Internet connection but that was running at it's usually speed, it did take a while to the speed test site up though.

Ok do a restart, that usually sorts out most things. After finally getting the list from Start and hitting restart all I got was the plain background and the spinning wheel. This went on for the longest time and there was no hard drive activity so I just hit the power button to turn it off.

I waited for a while then pressed the button to start it up with my fingers crossed. Seemed to be a bit slow then got the usual message that they were configuring the machine don't turn it off.
When it finally came on got the little pop out to tell me an update had been done which turned out to be a Cumulative one for my version of 10.

I was lucky Patty not having the same problems as you did but I know in future if things seem to be hung I'll just leave things alone and it give it time.

_________________
Joan Archer
http://crossstitcher.webs.com