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Internet Speed Requirements for Wireless IP Cameras
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Author:  bbarry [ Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Internet Speed Requirements for Wireless IP Cameras
I live out in the boonies where I am using a slow DSL service - 4.0 Mbps download and only 0.9 Mbps upload. I would like to install a few wireless IP cameras for watching wildlife around my property. Most IP cameras advertise that a minimum of 1.0 Mbps upload is required for each standard definition camera (and 2.5 Mbps for high definition).

But if my wireless cameras stay within the 150' range of my router, will I be able to use a couple of these IP cameras without having to access the internet at my slow speeds? I don't plan on trying to access the cameras with my iPhone while I am traveling away from home.

I guess I'm confused on when I am only using my LAN, and when I am actually accessing the internet. Thanks in advance....
Author:  jaylach [ Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Internet Speed Requirements for Wireless IP Cameras
Actually a sort of hard question to answer. It would help if you could define "IP camera".

When you say "IP" Cameras" I don't understand. Since 'IP' is common for Internet Provider I have to ask if the cameras rely on the internet to communicate. While I would consider it a bit of an odd setup it is possible that the camera sends to a server maintained by the manufacturer that then sends back to you. While this type of setup IS possible for a camera I find it doubtful. If this happens to be the case it is possible that your internet speed could be a factor but, since you have 4Mb/sec download it would probably be handled. Arggg, the 0.9Mb/sec upload you have versus the suggested 1.0Mb/sec could possibly be an issue but that is not really known. I mean is it a burst send of the data or is it using an actual internet protocol? I don't expect you to know that answer at this time but it is a valid factor. If using an actual internet protocol I doubt that the 0.9Mb/sec would cause you a whole lot of issue but if the device sends as a burst it very well could cause an issue.

If the camera is just wireless I don't see an issue as long as within range of your router. BTW, you can extend that 150 foot range if the area has a power outlet...

This is a case where you are talking about a specialized device. My best recommendation would be to contact their support and explain your setup. They should be able to give definitive answers.
Author:  bbarry [ Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Internet Speed Requirements for Wireless IP Cameras
Jay, as always, thanks for your response. This is how Wikipedia defines an IP camera:
An Internet Protocol camera, or IP camera, is a type of digital video camera commonly employed for surveillance, and which, unlike analog closed-circuit television (CCTV) cameras, can send and receive data via a computer network and the Internet. Although most cameras that do this are webcams, the term IP camera or netcam is usually applied only to those used for surveillance that can be directly accessed over a network connection.

And here is a photo of one (available on Amazon, at Walmart, etc):
Attachment:
ip camera.png
ip camera.png [ 64.18 KiB | Viewed 5483 times ]


As you suggested, I will also contact a manufacturer to seek an answer to my question.
Author:  jaylach [ Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Internet Speed Requirements for Wireless IP Cameras
The following quote tends to say to me that you would be OK but, of course, I cannot prove this. The quote indicates to me that internet access is an option, not essential.

"...can send and receive data via a computer network and the Internet...."
Author:  sboots [ Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Internet Speed Requirements for Wireless IP Cameras
If your upload speed is less than 1 Mbps, your video will be rather choppy, especially if you have it set to stream high definition. Accessing the cameras within your network won't be a problem, but accessing on your phone remotely will be problematic.
I have multiple IP cameras on my network which I can access remotely, but my upload speed here is rather fast (about 30 Mbps). This will surely change when we move -- in order to move closer to our grandchildren and my wife's mom and daughter, I anticipate a significant downgrade of Internet speed. :-O We're looking at a more rural area. ;-)
Author:  bbarry [ Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Internet Speed Requirements for Wireless IP Cameras
sboots wrote:
If your upload speed is less than 1 Mbps, your video will be rather choppy, especially if you have it set to stream high definition. Accessing the cameras within your network won't be a problem, but accessing on your phone remotely will be problematic.
I have multiple IP cameras on my network which I can access remotely, but my upload speed here is rather fast (about 30 Mbps). This will surely change when we move -- in order to move closer to our grandchildren and my wife's mom and daughter, I anticipate a significant downgrade of Internet speed. :-O We're looking at a more rural area. ;-)

Thanks, Steve. I think I will try a couple of standard definition cameras just to see how everything works. Currently I don't plan on accessing the cameras remotely on my iPhone.

Ah, living in a rural area. That's what I've done for the past 20 years. I trade internet speed for the peace, quite and wildlife that share my 5 acres. I live on a larger island surrounded by a lake and the river that feeds the lake. On our island we have deer, fox, racoons, squirrels, opossums, and birds. I feed the wildlife & birds and record their activities on infrared trail cameras. In the past 7 years, using a mixture of 15 cameras, I have recorded approximately 325,000 photos and videos.

I have a friend who, with his wife, lives in a rural area of Tennessee. They travel quite a bit, so he uses IP cameras to monitor the activities around their house while they are gone. Unlike me, they have a bear or two stroll through their outside breezeway, even when they are home. He uses a software program that allows him to view all of his cameras simultaneously on a computer monitor.

Ah, the rural life...…... :cboy1:
Author:  sboots [ Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Internet Speed Requirements for Wireless IP Cameras
Yes, I'm looking forward to a more rural life -- I'm willing to give up the blazing Internet access for it!
Author:  JoanA [ Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Internet Speed Requirements for Wireless IP Cameras
I love living the quiet life, after starting out in the city I've moved to somewhere smaller each time I've moved. I now live in a small coastal village we had 1 shop which has been closed for several months but has just re-opened under new management. Then there's the pub and a manor house that is a restaurant/pub and quest house.
My broadband used to be on average about 3.5Mbps down and 0.38Mbps up. We then got Fibre although it's not what you'd call true Fibre as it only goes to the box on the outskirts of the village then carries on over the normal phone lines but at least I get a better speed now. This is on my laptop just now over wireless and it's a bit slower than I often get.

http://www.speedtest.net/result/7409178799.png
Author:  bbarry [ Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Internet Speed Requirements for Wireless IP Cameras
Joan, even if slower than usual, your numbers are still VERY impressive.
Author:  sboots [ Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Internet Speed Requirements for Wireless IP Cameras
bbarry wrote:
Joan, even if slower than usual, your numbers are still VERY impressive.


I'll be thrilled if I can get that speed when we move. :-)
Author:  JoanA [ Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Internet Speed Requirements for Wireless IP Cameras
I know I was surprised when I got it, especially when it's not true Fibre. It is only a small village but I know the Welsh goverment are trying to push for better speeds across the country. Mobile signal though is a different matter, in the next village you have to be on the outskirts of the village to even get a signal and my village is on the edge of the signal.
Author:  bbarry [ Thu May 09, 2024 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Internet Speed Requirements for Wireless IP Cameras
sboots wrote:
bbarry wrote:
Joan, even if slower than usual, your numbers are still VERY impressive.


I'll be thrilled if I can get that speed when we move. :-)


Steve, I'm just curious...what speeds are you getting now that you've moved?

As previously discussed, I live out in the boonies of Arkansas. However, my ISP recently completed the installation of fiber optics, and my speeds are typically 155 Mbps download and 147 Mbps upload. Previously on DSL my speeds were typically 20 Mbps download and 12 Mbps upload.

So I am a happy camper, and I still have my assortment of local wildlife (deer, foxes, squirrels, raccoons, opossums, armadillos, turtles, birds).
Author:  sboots [ Sat May 11, 2024 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Internet Speed Requirements for Wireless IP Cameras
Hi, BB. We are in a suburban/rural location here and have a choice of Comcast or Glo-Fiber. The latter wasn't available until after we had moved in, so we have Comcast. We have cable Gigabit service, so I'm getting 950 +/- down and 20+ up. I'm loving the download speed, but the upload speed is only acceptable. I'm not sure why Comcast limits the upload speed so drastically as the DOCSIS spec supports a much higher upload.
Author:  jaylach [ Sat May 11, 2024 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Internet Speed Requirements for Wireless IP Cameras
Steve, I believe that the upload speed throttle is to prevent people from running web servers without paying for a business account. Spectrum does the same thing but then Spectrum and Comcast seem to be the same company.
Author:  sboots [ Sat May 11, 2024 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Internet Speed Requirements for Wireless IP Cameras
Server hosting may be one aspect, but the main reason is that they simply have not invested in updating their infrastructure yet. The DOCSIS standard for Internet over copper has a slower upload speed vs. the download speed. It's theoretically capable of much higher upload speeds, but the limitation is the equipment. There's an interesting post I found that explains it in way more detail than I've ever seen. An interesting point I read is about the amplification needed for handling uploads through the nodes from all connected homes/modems on each node. When I was in NJ on Optimum, the upload speed was 40 and my download was 400 for the tier I was on. Here I got Gigabit (or thereabouts) for less than what I was paying Optimum in NJ, but the upload speed is lower. After reading that post, I believe that the bigger reason is hardware on their network. Eventually they will likely go Fiber all the way rather than a hybrid fiber/copper path and that will provide much higher upload speeds. I don't have a problem with the current speed most of the time -- it's fast enough for my needs, including backing up my photos to OneDrive and my data to Carbonite, both of which happen in the background. I rarely upload large amounts of data in a foreground operation, so it's fine.
Author:  sboots [ Sat May 11, 2024 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Internet Speed Requirements for Wireless IP Cameras
Forgot the link to the explanation of uploads vs downloads on cable -- https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeNetworking/comments/tu6ifb/explanation_of_docsis_303140_why_upload_speeds/
Author:  bbarry [ Sat May 11, 2024 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Internet Speed Requirements for Wireless IP Cameras
My ISP provides three 'symmetrical' fiber optics plans, ranging from 150Mbps at $65/month up to 1000Mbps at $105/month. They also offer a copper plan at $50/month, but it also requires phone service.

I selected the 150Mbps, as that still provided a remarkable increase when compared to my old 25 Mbps DSL plan.

I just did a speed test and got 158Mbps down and 153Mbps up...as always, that is pretty symmetrical.
Author:  jaylach [ Sat May 11, 2024 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Internet Speed Requirements for Wireless IP Cameras
Thanks for the link Steve. I made a shortcut on my desktop to remind me to read as I can't right now.
Author:  Doddie [ Sun May 12, 2024 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Internet Speed Requirements for Wireless IP Cameras
Interestingly this thread has made me look into why another company seemed to be laying yet more fibre-optic cables outside my tenement a few weeks ago (it didn't follow the original trench that supplies me now, which is a CityFibre owned network, but it did run right up to the entrance of my tenement and stop which i thought a bit odd but didn't think anything about at the time... until now.... was this a CityFibre contractor laying upgraded cables for their upgraded infrastructure rollout?

To be clear, not all of my area had cables laid to their doors afaict, after my block the cable laying turned 90 degrees (just like my existing cable did) and appeared to cut out a whole swathe of the neighbourhood, whether they circled back and ran the cables from the other side later on, i have no idea.

A year ago i got a big discount for tying into a new 2 year contract with the ISP (vodafone) that uses the current infrastucture so i can't change provider for another year without a huge financial penalty even if i wanted too.

Anyway, after looking into it this is what i found...

Cityfibre and UK ISP Vodafone Trial 2Gbps Home Broadband Speeds
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2023/01/cityfibre-and-uk-isp-vodafone-trial-2gbps-home-broadband-speeds.html

Vodafone to launch its fastest ever Full Fibre speeds with the UK’s fastest WiFi technology as standard
https://www.vodafone.co.uk/newscentre/press-release/over-2gbps-full-fibre-speeds-with-wifi6e-router-as-standard/

I already have their latest WIFI6e router meaning i likely won't see much of a benefit there :)

I should also say that i have no idea what G-PON or for that matter what XGS-PON is, or means... suffice that the growth in internet speeds to the home is now going off the chart!!

While i've had Gigabit fibre for a while now i never could take advantage of the 1Gbps upload speeds (downloading was never an issue but i could never upload at any more than 500Mbps) because for some reason Win7 couldn't handle it even if there was no upload activity... I never did work out if that was a Windows or a hardware issue, or for that matter a driver issue... but now i'm on Win10 with newer hardware it's moot because i can easliy max out both.

I don't upload much so never had an issue with not being able to max out upload speeds, other than i was paying for the speed so i should be able to use it, but like i said above i always thought the issue could be at my end so i never made a big deal out of it.

As for upgrading to 2Gig ethernet, unless i get it for the same price i'm paying now then for the first time since Windows 1.11 i just can't get excited about it, and even then, will i really see much of a difference... probably not because after getting the full upload speed from my recent hardware and Windows upgrade in reality it's made no diffence in the real world other saving a second or two.
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